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Author Topic: The illegal immigrants desperate to escape squalor of Britain  (Read 1115 times)
dead0man
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« on: February 29, 2012, 01:34:43 am »
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The BBC has spoken to illegal immigrants who find themselves living amongst rats and rubbish in makeshift garden sheds and garages. They want to be deported back to India, but many are trapped in a bureaucratic no man's land without any documents.

<snip>

"I was told that life was good here. It's not just me, other boys came for work," he says. "You can see what state we're in, there's no work, no government help."

Jagdeesh has cut himself off from his family, saying he is ashamed of his failure to find work and would rather they thought he was dead than knew he was living in filth.

"They sold land and took out loans to get me out of India. What can I say to my family back home? The money we've invested is lost," he says.

Out of work, penniless and 4,000 miles from home, Jagdeesh has handed himself in for deportation.

Voluntary departures from the UK to all countries have risen steadily over the past six years, from 335 in 2005 to 15,537 in 2010, before falling to 12,879 in 2011, Home Office figures show.

<snip>

The immigrants complain of damp, cramped conditions, but being exploited by their own people angers them most.

"Our people who are here legally, permanent residents, who've made homes here, they've paid for their houses because of us," Jandeep says angrily.

"Their mortgages are paid because they charge a high rent. Everyone who lives here is Punjabi."

Row after row of terraced houses in this predominantly Asian area of west London are housing illegal immigrants in back gardens, creating slum-like areas.

Local councils estimate there are 10,000 sheds concealed from view across London and the Home Counties, lining networks of alleyways.

<snip>
Well that's an ugly mess.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
k-onmmunist
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« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 09:24:26 am »
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Don't blame them for wanting to escape. Britain is such a racist country now that if I wasn't white British, I'd probably want to get the hell out as soon as possible.
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Jacobtm
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« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 11:12:55 am »
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In 2009 in Mexico, I met a ton of Mexicans who spoke perfect English after living in the United States for 5, 10, 15 years.

They had been truck drivers, worked in restaurants, worked on resorts, and they had decided to leave the United States because doing that same kind of job in Mexico would give them a better life.

I don't know if dead0 is rejoicing that illegal immigrants want to leave, but it is no good sign for the US or UK that our economies are so bad that 3rd world immigrants would rather leave. They're not even opening up more jobs for anyone, since the ones who leave largely do so because they don't have work.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 11:16:04 am by Jacobtm »Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 02:59:56 pm »
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That's how the West was won.
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« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 03:04:22 pm »
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Don't blame them for wanting to escape. Britain is such a racist country now that if I wasn't white British, I'd probably want to get the hell out as soon as possible.

From everything I have read and heard, Britain is just as bad as the rest of Europe when it comes to racism, xenophobia, and general bigotry.  It's these rare discussions when I can proudly state "I am an American."
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Sibboleth Bist
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« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 03:17:07 pm »
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It's these rare discussions when I can proudly state "I am an American."

But only out of blissful ignorance.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 03:29:57 pm »
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Don't blame them for wanting to escape. Britain is such a racist country now that if I wasn't white British, I'd probably want to get the hell out as soon as possible.

From everything I have read and heard, Britain is just as bad as the rest of Europe when it comes to racism, xenophobia, and general bigotry.  It's these rare discussions when I can proudly state "I am an American."

On the other hand, some of your countrymen dress up as ghosts and run around burning crosses.

I think we're about equal when it comes to racist nutcases.
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ingemann
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 04:17:10 pm »
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Don't blame them for wanting to escape. Britain is such a racist country now that if I wasn't white British, I'd probably want to get the hell out as soon as possible.

From everything I have read and heard, Britain is just as bad as the rest of Europe when it comes to racism, xenophobia, and general bigotry.  It's these rare discussions when I can proudly state "I am an American."

Yes it's one more point where USA can say you're nr. one, like the graceful way you dealt with the Islamic Community Centre in New York, or the enlighten way people keep focusing on the president's middle name or where he was born.
 
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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 05:21:44 pm »
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Don't blame them for wanting to escape. Britain is such a racist country now that if I wasn't white British, I'd probably want to get the hell out as soon as possible.

From everything I have read and heard, Britain is just as bad as the rest of Europe when it comes to racism, xenophobia, and general bigotry.  It's these rare discussions when I can proudly state "I am an American."

Yes it's one more point where USA can say you're nr. one, like the graceful way you dealt with the Islamic Community Centre in New York, or the enlighten way people keep focusing on the president's middle name or where he was born.
 
We don't have parties like the BNP or French National Party (they actually get votes). What, the American Third Position Party gets a 1,000 votes tops? Come on. The Islamic Center was controversial, and we were not ready for it. Times have to change, and the change needed for that center to be built is a good 4-5 years down the line. I usually am not offended by this type of post, but Europeans really canít lecture us on these things. America and Europe are equally guilty of these troubles.

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America's like that hot chick everyone wants, and illegal immigrants are all the nerds that she should say "no" to.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 05:37:55 pm »
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Oh come on, the idea that America escapes the racism problem is bloody preposterous. The only reason the far right falls flat electorally, like here in the UK, is because we're in two-party FPTP systems (notice the only time the BNP seen success was in one of those rare things in Britain: a PR election), which completely disincentives voting elsewhere (even going so far as punishing it - a Rightist split would only benefit their opposition). It's not as if we even completely escape it, either - our voices for the Right have catered to that vote to different extents throughout modern history.

Also, how on earth can you read those posts you were quoting and take from that it was Europeans lecturing Americans?! I actually agree that Europeans and Americans are more or less as guilty as each other, but you clearly don't, because you're still trotting out the non-existence of the far-right electorally in America bollocks.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 05:43:52 pm by Leftbehind »Logged

Хahar
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« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 05:52:02 pm »
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The far-right in America is of a different sort than that in Europe, and it's pretty comfortably held in the Republican Party.
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« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 06:51:55 pm »
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I dunno about Britain, but I find everyday life to be less racist in the States than in Germany. There are some structurally racist policies in the US (e.g. War on Drugs) that destroy a lot of lives, but the average person you talk to there, IMO, seems to be a lot more tolerant towards people unlike himself than most people here in Germany.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2012, 07:00:07 pm »
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The far-right in America is of a different sort than that in Europe, and it's pretty comfortably held in the Republican Party.
True. I shouldn't have even conflated it with the "Far Right" term, as we were talking about racism and xenophobia explicitly, so how neoliberal and authoritarian the racists' electoral representation are is completely immaterial; the point being - as you say - even our (essentially) two-party systems and the centrist dichotomy that follows aren't free of xenophobia or racism.
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Sbane
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« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 07:35:04 pm »
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I don't understand why they want to go back to India. Apparently they don't want to go back to their families? If they don't do that when they get back to India, what else will they do? I wonder if they have thought things through.

As for xenophobia in Europe vs America, I tend to think Europe is more xenophobic. Most definitely in the case of places like Switzerland. Britain and America might be about the same on balance.
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Хahar
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« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 07:44:41 pm »
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One major difference is that the United States has a large population of non-whites not of recent foreign descent.
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Sibboleth Bist
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« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 08:12:24 pm »
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We don't have parties like the BNP or French National Party (they actually get votes). What, the American Third Position Party gets a 1,000 votes tops? Come on. The Islamic Center was controversial, and we were not ready for it. Times have to change, and the change needed for that center to be built is a good 4-5 years down the line. I usually am not offended by this type of post, but Europeans really canít lecture us on these things. America and Europe are equally guilty of these troubles.

This is a pretty hilarious post from someone with a picture of Ron Paul in their signature.
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Sbane
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« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 08:19:46 pm »
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We don't have parties like the BNP or French National Party (they actually get votes). What, the American Third Position Party gets a 1,000 votes tops? Come on. The Islamic Center was controversial, and we were not ready for it. Times have to change, and the change needed for that center to be built is a good 4-5 years down the line. I usually am not offended by this type of post, but Europeans really can’t lecture us on these things. America and Europe are equally guilty of these troubles.

This is a pretty hilarious post from someone with a picture of Ron Paul in their signature.

Yeah, you can't support Ron Paul and not be a horrible racist. Let's just go ahead and ignore that his foreign policy and policy on the war on drugs would lead to less browns getting killed or blacks and hispanics (and poors of all colors really) getting put in jail. Let's focus on a newsletter he may or may not have have proofread 20 years ago. Makes perfect sense.
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Sibboleth Bist
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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 08:47:50 pm »
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Or we could focus on his known links to fascist and other far-right organisations and individuals. We could do that.

But I'm very, very, very sorry that I wrote bad things about St Paul of the Internets.
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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 09:30:04 pm »
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Let us assume that that he does harbor these feelings, it's not as if he is campaigning on them, is he? Which would make him different from the BNP and other far right parties of Europe who are quite open about what they are. It's not fair to characterize all Paul supporters as being the same ilk as the supporters of Europe's far right.

Then again Chairman"Sanchez" has said some interesting things in the past so in his case.....
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redcommander
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« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 11:47:08 pm »
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Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 07:03:25 am »
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Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.

The Tories were doing well the job of capting racist voters.

Ever heard about Enoch Powell or the Tories saying "If you want a nigger for your neighbour, vote Labour." (or something like that)?
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 07:17:15 am »
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Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.

The Tories were doing well the job of capting racist voters.

Ever heard about Enoch Powell or the Tories saying "If you want a nigger for your neighbour, vote Labour." (or something like that)?

It wasn't Enoch, but that slogan was used.

And the Tories certainly haven't helped - their campaigns in 2001 and 2005 were pretty much openly anti-immigration.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 07:28:49 am »
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Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.

The Tories were doing well the job of capting racist voters.

Ever heard about Enoch Powell or the Tories saying "If you want a nigger for your neighbour, vote Labour." (or something like that)?

It wasn't Enoch, but that slogan was used.

And the Tories certainly haven't helped - their campaigns in 2001 and 2005 were pretty much openly anti-immigration.

I know it wasn't Enoch who said that. It was two different elements.
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afleitch
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 07:30:06 am »

Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.

The Tories were doing well the job of capting racist voters.

Ever heard about Enoch Powell or the Tories saying "If you want a nigger for your neighbour, vote Labour." (or something like that)?

It wasn't Enoch, but that slogan was used.

And the Tories certainly haven't helped - their campaigns in 2001 and 2005 were pretty much openly anti-immigration.

"British Jobs for British Workers" - Gordon Brown.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 07:37:24 am »
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Why has Britain gotten so xenophobic? Is it because of Eastern Europeans immigrating once the EU expanded in 04, because you never really heard much about groups like UKIP or the BNP gaining any traction in the 90's and much of the 00's.

The Tories were doing well the job of capting racist voters.

Ever heard about Enoch Powell or the Tories saying "If you want a nigger for your neighbour, vote Labour." (or something like that)?

It wasn't Enoch, but that slogan was used.

And the Tories certainly haven't helped - their campaigns in 2001 and 2005 were pretty much openly anti-immigration.

"British Jobs for British Workers" - Gordon Brown.

You know, it is hard to find an European which didn't expressed anti-immigration views. That's a vote-gainer, it hard to resist the temptation of going for easy votes.

Disgusting but I understand the logic behind that. It's like the American GOP. They attract people who don't care about their economic polities by using wedge issues. Same thing here. You attract voters with a wedge issue.
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