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Author Topic: Establishment Gives Middle Finger to Rank-and-File Republicans  (Read 1032 times)
BigSkyBob
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« on: March 01, 2012, 02:45:29 pm »
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http://www.freep.com/article/20120301/NEWS15/120301038/Mitt-Romney-gets-Michigan-s-large-delegates

Changing the rules after the election is over just goes to show how desperate the establishment is in its war against rank-and-file Republicans.

They can't seem to help themselves. Romney was so desperate to claim victory in Maine that he dissed the folks whom still hadn't had their chance to vote. He is toast in Maine in November as a result. He would have had a shot at one Congressional district. In Michigan, the unfairness of this decision will only energize his critics. This, not his narrow margin in one of his home states, will now become a focus of the next few days. What an idiot!
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 02:46:44 pm »
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Wow...
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(Part of the 2012 Election Throwback Series)
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 02:48:10 pm »
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would imagine that the possible pr fallout is more valuable than the +/- 1 delegate at stake here.
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Yank2133
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 02:50:33 pm »
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Worst frontrunner ever.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 02:53:37 pm »
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would imagine that the possible pr fallout is more valuable than the +/- 1 delegate at stake here.

Yes, and, that extra delegate may very well be successfully challenged at the convention. The PR blackeye may very well be for nothing.
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 03:15:19 pm »
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Romney is personally calling rank-and-file Republicans on Election Days. I would advise the Santorum campaign to move on from Michigan...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 03:17:10 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 03:20:29 pm »
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Joseph Stalin would be very proud of Michigan Republicans.
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 03:23:30 pm »
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Romney is personally calling rank-and-file Republicans on Election Days. I would advise the Santorum campaign to move on from Michigan...

You seriously suggesting Romney actually campaigns in States he intends to carry? Surely the mere mortals he strolls across on those efforts should think themselves very priviledged indeed to be post factum cheated out of the opportunity to have their voices heard within the party!
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2012, 03:33:23 pm »
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Joseph Stalin would be very proud of Michigan Republicans.



"You know, comrades," says Stalin, "that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this who will count the votes, and how."

-Joseph Stalin as quoted by his secretary in his memoirs
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2012, 03:41:21 pm »
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Romney is personally calling rank-and-file Republicans on Election Days. I would advise the Santorum campaign to move on from Michigan...

I'm sure that, like cockroaches, Romney and his minions want to do their dirty work in the dark.

I'm going to cast some sunlight. I wonder how long it will before the cockroaches restore Santorum's delegate, and scurry back into the shadows.
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2012, 03:49:47 pm »
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Romney is personally calling rank-and-file Republicans on Election Days. I would advise the Santorum campaign to move on from Michigan...

I'm sure that, like cockroaches, Romney and his minions want to do their dirty work in the dark.

I'm going to cast some sunlight. I wonder how long it will before the cockroaches restore Santorum's delegate, and scurry back into the shadows.

I can assure you the Romney campaign is not getting phone lists of Michigan Democrats from unions. And the Romney campaign is most certainly not robocalling Democrats. All Romney has done is pursue rank-and-file Republicans, and he's won 7 of 12 contests thus far. It has been a long road, and there is a lot of distance left to cover, but even Rambo struggled from time to time.

Romney is not going to owe anything to any unions, or anybody for that matter. Who knows what Santorum owes, and to whom, in Washington, DC. We don't even know who was funneling those hundreds of thousands of dollars into Santorum's Super PAC back in December when he was polling in single digits in Iowa...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 03:52:16 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 04:37:56 pm »
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Dude... the rules weren't changed.  They were just never finalized before.  The committee was simply voting on the final way the delegates would be divided up.
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Torie
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 04:42:14 pm »
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No the rules did not change, it was just that the memo characterizing them was in error. But nobody changed their conduct based on whether the winner of the state gets two delegates or one. And the rules don't change just because someone mischaracterizes them. If you want to avoid the risk of mischaracterization, read the text of the rules yourself is my best advice.

I consider the headline to this thread to be false and misleading by the way. It does not comport with the facts, and further contains a fair amount of personal opinion, also not reflected in the linked story. JMO.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 04:43:08 pm »
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This is a misleading and overly hyperbolic headline intended to generate a controversy that doesn't exist.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 04:48:50 pm »
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http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/01/10552328-michigan-delegate-drama

But in an interview with NBC News three weeks ago -- on Feb. 8 -- Michigan GOP Chair Robert Schostak clearly stated that Michigan's at-large delegates would be awarded PROPORTIONALLY.

Schostak said:

    "We start off with, after the penalty, 30 voting delegates. Okay? Each district-congressional district - you can win individually. So you have 14 districts you can win two delegates. That takes you to 28. Okay? The two at-large that remain, provided the individual candidate won at least 15 percent of the statewide vote - okay so with four candidates that's likely to happen. Then they get awarded proportionally, those delegates, and then rounded to the nearest decimal point so there won't be any half delegates or quarter delegates."

The Michigan Republican Party has been rife with internal disagreements over the years, so it's not surprising that it doesn't even agree how its delegates should be awarded.
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 04:50:53 pm »
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If unemployment is below 8.5 and gas below 3.00 on election day, Obama will win by 20 points.  Romney is the worst nominee in major party history. Worse than Dole and Mondale, who lost due to a strong incumbent, and worse than Goldwater and McGovern, who stood by convictions not shared by the majority of Americans. He's on par with Michael Dukakis, except Dukakis started out with a 15 point lead while Romney just has a 4.
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 04:55:43 pm »
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Even if unemployment and gas is still high Romney will be blown out.
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ShadowOfTheWave
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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 05:04:05 pm »
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You people really think this is going to be big news?
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 09:56:49 pm »
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Dude... the rules weren't changed.  They were just never finalized before.  The committee was simply voting on the final way the delegates would be divided up.

Of course, the rules were changed. Changing the rules is changing the rules, even if they were subject to revision for whatever reason. Only in banana republics are the rules changed after an election has taken place. In republics, the rules are "finalized" before election day, not after.

The question boils down to this: if Santorum had won, would the current rules had been "finalized?" I think that would have been the case. Romney win 2-0; Santorum win 1-1. That's how banana republics decide elections.
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 10:33:50 pm »
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I don't think we live in a country that would settle for 8.5% unemployment and $3.00/gallon won't happen. Anything above 7% won't be acceptable. Romney will constantly be able to remind us how much more gas is compared to 2008 and play Obama whining about prices then but basically quoting George W. Bush in 2012. Hmm now what about Obama is different in 2012 than in 2008? Gee I can't figure this out. Why would a president excuse gas prices as an incumbent but whine about them as a new candidate. Can anyone tell me why? Look it's politics and Obama looks like a politician in this mess. There are a number of other points Romney can poke at with Obama. This is not an election where Bush is in office with a 25% approval rating.
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 11:06:02 pm »
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I don't think we live in a country that would settle for 8.5% unemployment and $3.00/gallon won't happen. Anything above 7% won't be acceptable. Romney will constantly be able to remind us how much more gas is compared to 2008 and play Obama whining about prices then but basically quoting George W. Bush in 2012. Hmm now what about Obama is different in 2012 than in 2008? Gee I can't figure this out. Why would a president excuse gas prices as an incumbent but whine about them as a new candidate. Can anyone tell me why? Look it's politics and Obama looks like a politician in this mess. There are a number of other points Romney can poke at with Obama. This is not an election where Bush is in office with a 25% approval rating.

I'm pretty sure the record gas price was 6 months BEFORE Obama became president...



Regardless of who the president is, there's almost NO correlation between government action and gas prices. He can't control global oil prices...

Also note how there's a non-GFC related spike in March-April each year?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 11:08:10 pm by President-elect Polnut »Logged


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« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 11:11:14 pm »
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I don't think we live in a country that would settle for 8.5% unemployment and $3.00/gallon won't happen. Anything above 7% won't be acceptable. Romney will constantly be able to remind us how much more gas is compared to 2008 and play Obama whining about prices then but basically quoting George W. Bush in 2012. Hmm now what about Obama is different in 2012 than in 2008? Gee I can't figure this out. Why would a president excuse gas prices as an incumbent but whine about them as a new candidate. Can anyone tell me why? Look it's politics and Obama looks like a politician in this mess. There are a number of other points Romney can poke at with Obama. This is not an election where Bush is in office with a 25% approval rating.

It isn't about settling, it is about trend.

Reagan won with 7.2% unemployment, which is still high. But the fact that it was improving is what matters, same thing for Obama.
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 11:31:43 pm »
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http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/01/10552328-michigan-delegate-drama

But in an interview with NBC News three weeks ago -- on Feb. 8 -- Michigan GOP Chair Robert Schostak clearly stated that Michigan's at-large delegates would be awarded PROPORTIONALLY.

Schostak said:

    "We start off with, after the penalty, 30 voting delegates. Okay? Each district-congressional district - you can win individually. So you have 14 districts you can win two delegates. That takes you to 28. Okay? The two at-large that remain, provided the individual candidate won at least 15 percent of the statewide vote - okay so with four candidates that's likely to happen. Then they get awarded proportionally, those delegates, and then rounded to the nearest decimal point so there won't be any half delegates or quarter delegates."

The Michigan Republican Party has been rife with internal disagreements over the years, so it's not surprising that it doesn't even agree how its delegates should be awarded.

Schostak was mistakened there.  Look - I'm not an Anuzis fan at all, and I've heard from people that I trust, some of who are on Anuzis's side, some of who voted for Romney, others who tend to be on the non-Anuzis side (people in the Yob faction and people outside of it), and people who supported Santorum.  This was a misstatement and the rules never changed.
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 12:17:05 am »
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The information provided to the WSJ (and from them to Frontloading) stated that it was to be WTA.  There was a lot of confusion, clearly...many party souces, including Matt Frendewey, and apparently Bobby Schostak, thought it would be proportional, and I took them at their word on that one.

But this wasn't something that popped up out of the blue after the election.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 12:19:54 am by Erc »Logged
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2012, 12:25:17 am »
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I suppose BSB and co. will either ignore this or just deny it's authenticity. 


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