What Should be done about entitlement programs?

[futurepres]

Title says it all

[Sibboleth]

Title says it all

I'm afraid that, actually, it does not.

[Redalgo]

Reform. The liberal welfare regime is not solidaristic and fails to guarantee people their most basic needs. The "entitlement programs" in the States are better than nothing, but woefully inadequate.

[Californian Tony]

Title says it all

I'm afraid that, actually, it does not.

Indeed. The question and the poll's option are based on extremely obvious preconcieved notions.

[© Tweed the Younger]

you forgot the 'expand the US welfare state to a much more normal level and prohibit the use of the entitlement neologism as it is a subtle instrument of class power' option.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Off the top of my head:

Keep retirement age at 62 and promises to seniors.
Medicare is a good idea.
Expand medicaid in replace of Obamacare.
Illegal immigrants should be allowed on medicaid.
Allow for optional health and medical savings accounts.
Choose between unemployment and welfare.

[© Tweed the Younger]

Choose between unemployment and welfare.

what does this mean?

[opebo]

Drastic expansion should be done.

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

[Tidewater_Wave]

Drastic expansion should be done.

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

Yep make everything free and easy for the people while a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, we'll all have plenty of money, we can trust our politicians to be dependent on the government when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get treatment, play video games, get high, and sing kumbiah. Folks this is the mentality we're dealing with from the left. I take it that most posters here know better to know the effects of such policies so I won't even take the time to explain the effects of higher wages leading to higher prices and a lessened value of the dollar.

[a Person]

Drastic expansion should be done.

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

Yep make everything free and easy for the people while a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, we'll all have plenty of money, we can trust our politicians to be dependent on the government when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get treatment, play video games, get high, and sing kumbiah. Folks this is the mentality we're dealing with from the left. I take it that most posters here know better to know the effects of such policies so I won't even take the time to explain the effects of higher wages leading to higher prices and a lessened value of the dollar.

Please, please, please don't use opebo as a poster boy for the entire left.

[opebo]

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

...a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, ...

Come on, can't you READ?  The system I describe above isn't free, the people are still working 20 hours per week, and the rich are still not working at all, and everything is still paid for by the workers.  The difference is they just have to work a bit less and the rich get to use them a bit less harshly.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

...a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, ...

Come on, can't you READ?  The system I describe above isn't free, the people are still working 20 hours per week, and the rich are still not working at all, and everything is still paid for by the workers.  The difference is they just have to work a bit less and the rich get to use them a bit less harshly.

^^ Everyone this is exactly what Obama wants us to think of the rich and the current economic system of this country. The Democrat above has fallen for it. Socialism and redistribution of the wealth has no place here. Go to Greece if you want to try that nonsense.

[a Person]

I'm afraid I'll have to repeat myself:

Drastic expansion should be done.

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

Yep make everything free and easy for the people while a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, we'll all have plenty of money, we can trust our politicians to be dependent on the government when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get treatment, play video games, get high, and sing kumbiah. Folks this is the mentality we're dealing with from the left. I take it that most posters here know better to know the effects of such policies so I won't even take the time to explain the effects of higher wages leading to higher prices and a lessened value of the dollar.

Please, please, please don't use opebo as a poster boy for the entire left.

[Tidewater_Wave]

I'm afraid I'll have to repeat myself:

Drastic expansion should be done.

Retirement at 55.
Full pension for all (equal regardless of income)
Full socialized medicine
Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.
$15/hour minimum wage
20 hour/week work week
12 weeks per year mandated holiday time
2 years primary childcare leave, paid, mandated, 6 months for assisting partner
full dole - food stamps, free rent, spending money

Yep make everything free and easy for the people while a free ride through life is paid for by a few. We'll all get along, no one will have to work, we'll all have plenty of money, we can trust our politicians to be dependent on the government when it comes to deciding who does and doesn't get treatment, play video games, get high, and sing kumbiah. Folks this is the mentality we're dealing with from the left. I take it that most posters here know better to know the effects of such policies so I won't even take the time to explain the effects of higher wages leading to higher prices and a lessened value of the dollar.

Please, please, please don't use opebo as a poster boy for the entire left.

He doesn't represent you? Alright I won't or at least will try not to. See it's things like that that get me going. Once I'm started I can't stop and then I turn into a fringe candidate rather than a moderate conservative.

[opebo]

^^ Everyone this is exactly what Obama wants us to think of the rich and the current economic system of this country. The Democrat above has fallen for it.

No buddy, Obama's on your side.  I'm out here on my own.

Socialism and redistribution of the wealth has no place here. Go to Greece if you want to try that nonsense.

How do you imagine I can 'try' anything?  I have no power.  The rich have the power, and what happens is what they want.  I'm just a critic, which has no effect on anything whatsoever. 

[Tidewater_Wave]

^^ Everyone this is exactly what Obama wants us to think of the rich and the current economic system of this country. The Democrat above has fallen for it.

No buddy, Obama's on your side.  I'm out here on my own.

Socialism and redistribution of the wealth has no place here. Go to Greece if you want to try that nonsense.

How do you imagine I can 'try' anything?  I have no power.  The rich have the power, and what happens is what they want.  I'm just a critic, which has no effect on anything whatsoever. 

^^ Yep the same negative mentality and depression we've been hearing from the left since 1936. Everything is a conspiracy and if Democrats are elected then they'll give us trees that are just the right height, greener grass, and cleaner skies. Sounds like 6th grade where the kids promise that if elected they'll give you extra days off, more dances, and longer lunches. Keep falling for it and you'll get a free hand out.

[© Tweed the Younger]

and of course it should be pointed out to our Tidewater bro (whose profile claims he is 27, but I choose not to believe that) that a) there is a significant intellectual cadre at the Atlas that has argued opebo is not left-wing at all, but far-right; and b) American liberalism itself is center-right and was "never intended to be a left wing" as Chris Hedges put it.  when its modern form was born out of the progressive middle-class reformist movement it acted as a mediator between the bourgeois that owned the society and the syndicalists that were firebombing timber factories.

[Tidewater_Wave]

and of course it should be pointed out to our Tidewater bro (whose profile claims he is 27, but I choose not to believe that) that a) there is a significant intellectual cadre at the Atlas that has argued opebo is not left-wing at all, but far-right; and b) American liberalism itself is center-right and was "never intended to be a left wing" as Chris Hedges put it.  when its modern form was born out of the progressive middle-class reformist movement it acted as a mediator between the bourgeois that owned the society and the syndicalists that were firebombing timber factories.

The classical liberal is reflective of libertarian views. Throughout the last half century, the term "left" has been progressively changed to refer to modern day Democrats and I'm aware of this. Under these circumstances I can see obepo being far right and not far left. I really do see what you're saying on philosophical terms. We can use this line of thought to apply to limited government as well. Which party really supports bigger government when one advocates it on economic matters and the other on social matters? It's all about terminology at that point. I myself am very liberal in the classical sense but have no interest in modern day Democrats' agenda for the U.S. I am 27 though.

[politicus]

Socialism and redistribution of the wealth has no place here. Go to Greece if you want to try that nonsense.

Greece is not a socialist society. A conservative government got them into the mess they are in.

[opebo]

...a) there is a significant intellectual cadre at the Atlas that has argued opebo is not left-wing at all, but far-right; and b) American liberalism itself is center-right and was "never intended to be a left wing" as Chris Hedges put it.  when its modern form was born out of the progressive middle-class reformist movement it acted as a mediator between the bourgeois that owned the society and the syndicalists that were firebombing timber factories.

...I can see obepo being far right and not far left.

Nice to be a reference point, lads.  There's little doubt I'm more right than left.  The king on his throne, the elephant in the street, and the girls in their house.  OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHMMMMMMMMM. (human progress is not possible).

[Chareth Cutestory]

He doesn't represent you? Alright I won't or at least will try not to. See it's things like that that get me going. Once I'm started I can't stop and then I turn into a fringe candidate rather than a moderate conservative.

Please also try to remember that YOU are not running for anything, you don't need to campaign against anyone. This place is a free exchange of ideas, not a national debate stage. God knows we have enough of those monstrosities.

The classical liberal is reflective of libertarian views. Throughout the last half century, the term "left" has been progressively changed to refer to modern day Democrats and I'm aware of this. Under these circumstances I can see obepo being far right and not far left. I really do see what you're saying on philosophical terms. We can use this line of thought to apply to limited government as well. Which party really supports bigger government when one advocates it on economic matters and the other on social matters? It's all about terminology at that point. I myself am very liberal in the classical sense but have no interest in modern day Democrats' agenda for the U.S. I am 27 though.

"Classical liberalism" as used today is a lazy ideology that just jams every issue into the "less government" template until it fits. That's not even an ideology, it's just a campaign contrivance. People that have ideologies before positions tend to have quite contrived political stances in general.

But anyway...I agree with Tweed in a sense. Our system is stifled and villainised on a regular basis, especially from those who need it. It's the all too common phenomenon of people buying into the nonsense spewed by those using the masses to achieve their monetary goals through politics.

[perdedor]

Make social security and medical tax progressive without a 'cutoff'.

This.

[I Can't Get That Sound You Make, Out Of My Head]

Reform them. No idea if that'd make it more conservative or liberal though.

[memphis]

if Democrats are elected then they'll give us trees that are just the right height

It wasn't a Democrat who made that observation. But, considering how often he waffles, I wouldn't be suprised if he is a severe Democrat one day.