is there such thing as WASP flight?

[freepcrusher]

we've all heard of white flight, but is there such a thing as WASP flight? WASP flight is when an area is still mostly white but the white people there are no longer WASPs. Looking at areas like the chicago suburbs, Broward County, FL and parts of the San Gabriel Valley in CA one will find that George W Bush ran behind Barry Goldwater and McCain did even worse. Those areas are still mostly white but is the move towards the democrats due to the WASPs leaving?

[traininthedistance]

Perhaps.  Also possible is that there are a lot of WASPs which would have been Republicans 40 years ago but which have drifted leftward as the Republicans abandoned their moderate Northeastern wing.  Back in the day, Irish/Italian/Polish/etc. Catholics would have been solid Dem and the WASPs solidly R, nowadays this is no longer the case.

Westchester County in NY is probably the clearest example of this phenomenon.  There are still plenty of WASPs there.

[Sbane]

How is the San Gabriel valley mostly white? The reason it votes so Democratic is due to the high Hispanic population, and lower income Asians in places like Rosemead and Monterey Park. The white population is probably voting a little more Democratic as there has been a trend towards Democrats with non southern WASPs nationwide, and this is reflected there as well. But the trend towards the Democrats isn't as clear there as it is in places like Westchester County, or the wealthy areas north of Chicago. In the San Gabriel Valley most of the trend towards the Democrats has been due to demographic changes. The Beach cities would have been a better example, or parts of the San Fernando Valley. But again the trend isn't due to other types of whites moving in, rather WASP's voting more Democratic than before.

Oh wait, you're talking about Pasadena aren't you? Same deal as the Beach cities and the wealthier parts of the San Fernando Valley.

[freepcrusher]

Perhaps.  Also possible is that there are a lot of WASPs which would have been Republicans 40 years ago but which have drifted leftward as the Republicans abandoned their moderate Northeastern wing.  Back in the day, Irish/Italian/Polish/etc. Catholics would have been solid Dem and the WASPs solidly R, nowadays this is no longer the case.

Westchester County in NY is probably the clearest example of this phenomenon.  There are still plenty of WASPs there.

Well WASPs are a broad term and there are many liberal ones and many conservative ones. The liberal WASPS would be mostly in the northeast and would be people like John Lindsay or Lowell Weicker that were often of episcopalian background.

The WASPs I was thinking of were the Chicago-Tribune reading republicans who looked something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_caR1bkOEg.

One guy who I thought epitomized the old suburban Chicago culture was Phil Crane. Areas like suburban Phoenix (which is still republican), the foothills communities in the San Gabriel Valley, and Broward County were all populated by those McCormack and Pulliam reading types. These people were often very conservative and looking at election results one will see that outside of the deep south, Goldwater's stronghold was in places like DuPage County, IL (59.9% for him), or Broward County, FL (55.5% for AuH20). I also read somewhere that Goldwater won the part of Cook County not in the city of Chicago. In LA County he won 42% of the vote so its probably he was winning areas like Glendale, La Canada etc.

These people I would suspect remained staunch conservatives for the rest of their life. But the communities they lived in are either now dem voting, marginal, or less republican then they used to be. The aforementioned communities are still mostly white but it seems that there are no more WASPs and they either died off or moved away.

[Sbane]

The aforementioned communities are still mostly white but it seems that there are no more WASPs and they either died off or moved away.

Where is the evidence that these areas are no longer WASP dominated (at least amongst whites)? Couldn't it be that they vote increasingly Democrat now? These were moderate Republican, and the party has left them behind. Anyways, have you noticed that these areas tend to be quite swingy? What does that tell you? Yes, they might have voted for Obama, but they don't always vote Democrat.

[freepcrusher]

The aforementioned communities are still mostly white but it seems that there are no more WASPs and they either died off or moved away.

Where is the evidence that these areas are no longer WASP dominated (at least amongst whites)? Couldn't it be that they vote increasingly Democrat now? These were moderate Republican, and the party has left them behind. Anyways, have you noticed that these areas tend to be quite swingy? What does that tell you? Yes, they might have voted for Obama, but they don't always vote Democrat.

See that's the difficult thing because its difficult to get a vibe of the people that live there without committing hearsay. For years these areas were represented by people like Herbert Burke, Phil Crane, John Rousselot, Carlos Moorhead who were far to the right and its easy to generalize saying that most of the people there think like that. But for all we know most of their constituents didn't share their views.

[Sbane]

My point is that even though those areas have moved left, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is due to WASP's leaving and ethnic Whites moving in. It could be a generational thing. It could be people who were voting Republican out of habit back then who are Independents now.

[Torie]

Ethnic whites just aren't much of a concept in CA, and haven't been for most of my life, except for the Jews to some extent. Asians move in and middle to upper income WASPS (yes that was the WASP belt in LA County) moved out or died in the San Gabriel Valley. Hispanics moved in, and lower income whites moved out. SoCal trends to the Dems are about two thirds anyway due to these kind of changes, and at most one third due to middle and higher income whites becoming more Dem (except for Jews, who are trending a bit to the GOP).  The trend to the Dems among whites in Nocal (outside the Central Valley and the empty zones) is more pronounced. The greens and the new agers and the counter-culturists moved in, and up there the more prosaic whites either moved out of the state (if lower income), or died over time.

CA is an unusual state.

[freepcrusher]

CA is an unusual state.

unusual, eh? Well its always been said that CA is a trendsetter for the rest of the country so before too long, we could be in an unusual nation! (BTW, where are the smilies on this website?)

[tallguy23]

Well Glendale and Burbank, CA used to be staunch Republican areas until the mid-90s. Now it's staunch Dem and both cities voted for Obama by about 65%. A lot of this is due to demographic changes (latinos and asians) but both areas are still majority white. Glendale in particular went from a WASP city to a city where the biggest chunk of whites are of Armenian descent. If Republicans were more moderate they could win in these areas since Armenians can be quite consrvative.

[Sbane]

Ethnic whites just aren't much of a concept in CA, and haven't been for most of my life, except for the Jews to some extent. Asians move in and middle to upper income WASPS (yes that was the WASP belt in LA County) moved out or died in the San Gabriel Valley. Hispanics moved in, and lower income whites moved out. SoCal trends to the Dems are about two thirds anyway due to these kind of changes, and at most one third due to middle and higher income whites becoming more Dem (except for Jews, who are trending a bit to the GOP).  The trend to the Dems among whites in Nocal (outside the Central Valley and the empty zones) is more pronounced. The greens and the new agers and the counter-culturists moved in, and up there the more prosaic whites either moved out of the state (if lower income), or died over time.

CA is an unusual state.

How did Pasadena vote back in the day? Or even Burbank and Glendale for that matter. Although in most of the San Gabriel Valley demographic changes are causing the change in voting patterns (West Covina or Walnut come to mind), isn't the Democratic trend in Pasadena due to Whites voting more Democrat. I guess I understand Burbank and Glendale due to their proximity to LA, but what about Pasadena? I guess it is a pretty happening place though......anyways I don't really buy the WASP's moving out and ethnic whites moving in argument. More just a change in values among the upper income whites.

[Napoleon]

Pasadena is a yuppie/hipster/artist destination as of late.

[Devils30]

Broward is completely different now than 1964 as it's grown about 6 times larger, hence a completely different electorate. Broward and Palm Beach had the same sharp trend toward the dems from 1992-2000 that NJ, NY, CT, Eastern PA had. Considering the amount of northern transplants there it makes sense.

[Torie]

Ethnic whites just aren't much of a concept in CA, and haven't been for most of my life, except for the Jews to some extent. Asians move in and middle to upper income WASPS (yes that was the WASP belt in LA County) moved out or died in the San Gabriel Valley. Hispanics moved in, and lower income whites moved out. SoCal trends to the Dems are about two thirds anyway due to these kind of changes, and at most one third due to middle and higher income whites becoming more Dem (except for Jews, who are trending a bit to the GOP).  The trend to the Dems among whites in Nocal (outside the Central Valley and the empty zones) is more pronounced. The greens and the new agers and the counter-culturists moved in, and up there the more prosaic whites either moved out of the state (if lower income), or died over time.

CA is an unusual state.

How did Pasadena vote back in the day? Or even Burbank and Glendale for that matter. Although in most of the San Gabriel Valley demographic changes are causing the change in voting patterns (West Covina or Walnut come to mind), isn't the Democratic trend in Pasadena due to Whites voting more Democrat. I guess I understand Burbank and Glendale due to their proximity to LA, but what about Pasadena? I guess it is a pretty happening place though......anyways I don't really buy the WASP's moving out and ethnic whites moving in argument. More just a change in values among the upper income whites.

They all voted Pub, although Pasadena was a mixed bag, given the wide range of income levels in the town. Glendale is Armenian now, and Burbank and Pasadena mixed with everything (including more Jews who no longer stick to their westside neighborhoods and parts of the San Fernando Valley as much), but Pasadena is no longer considered a home of the WASP elite of the type who manage the Rose Parade and whose daughters go to debutante balls and participate in the Junior League (the bulk of the folks in those imposing immaculately landscaped - homes in the chic neighborhoods of LA I suspect have the most lavish and sophisticated landscaping in the world - Spanish and Craftsman homes next to S. Pasadena and San Marino of course work in the entertainment industry now), and the folks in Burbank no longer work in the aviation industry, but rather in the entertainment industry.

Anyway, for these towns, certainly a part of it is the changing attitudes of higher income whites in hostile reaction to the "Santorum" wing of the GOP (well Burbank was never that high income, except for a couple of census tracts next to Griffith Park with an equestrian theme), but part of it too is the type of white has changed, and is more professional, and/or entertainment industry related, and less at the top of the heap in insurance, oil (there used to be an oil industry in LA, and still was at the corporate level in LA when I was a young man), investment banking, aviation/aerospace and defense. The rest of the WASP belt in the San Gabriel Valley except against the mountains when you get as far east as Glendora, has gone heavily Asian - S. Pasadena, Arcadia, San Gabriel,  and so forth, as you know.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Ethnic whites just aren't much of a concept in CA, and haven't been for most of my life, except for the Jews to some extent. Asians move in and middle to upper income WASPS (yes that was the WASP belt in LA County) moved out or died in the San Gabriel Valley. Hispanics moved in, and lower income whites moved out. SoCal trends to the Dems are about two thirds anyway due to these kind of changes, and at most one third due to middle and higher income whites becoming more Dem (except for Jews, who are trending a bit to the GOP).  The trend to the Dems among whites in Nocal (outside the Central Valley and the empty zones) is more pronounced. The greens and the new agers and the counter-culturists moved in, and up there the more prosaic whites either moved out of the state (if lower income), or died over time.

CA is an unusual state.

How did Pasadena vote back in the day? Or even Burbank and Glendale for that matter. Although in most of the San Gabriel Valley demographic changes are causing the change in voting patterns (West Covina or Walnut come to mind), isn't the Democratic trend in Pasadena due to Whites voting more Democrat. I guess I understand Burbank and Glendale due to their proximity to LA, but what about Pasadena? I guess it is a pretty happening place though......anyways I don't really buy the WASP's moving out and ethnic whites moving in argument. More just a change in values among the upper income whites.

They all voted Pub, although Pasadena was a mixed bag, given the wide range of income levels in the town. Glendale is Armenian now, and Burbank and Pasadena mixed with everything (including more Jews who no longer stick to their westside neighborhoods and parts of the San Fernando Valley as much), but Pasadena is no longer considered a home of the WASP elite of the type who manage the Rose Parade and whose daughters go to debutante balls and participate in the Junior League (the bulk of the folks in those imposing immaculately landscaped - homes in the chic neighborhoods of LA I suspect have the most lavish and sophisticated landscaping in the world - Spanish and Craftsman homes next to S. Pasadena and San Marino of course work in the entertainment industry now), and the folks in Burbank no longer work in the aviation industry, but rather in the entertainment industry.

Anyway, for these towns, certainly a part of it is the changing attitudes of higher income whites in hostile reaction to the "Santorum" wing of the GOP (well Burbank was never that high income, except for a couple of census tracts next to Griffith Park with an equestrian theme), but part of it too is the type of white has changed, and is more professional, and/or entertainment industry related, and less at the top of the heap in insurance, oil (there used to be an oil industry in LA, and still was at the corporate level in LA when I was a young man), investment banking, aviation/aerospace and defense. The rest of the WASP belt in the San Gabriel Valley except against the mountains when you get as far east as Glendora, has gone heavily Asian - S. Pasadena, Arcadia, San Gabriel,  and so forth, as you know.

Interesting. Up here in the Bay Area, the WASPy areas of San Francisco like Pacific Heights and of the SF Peninsula like Hillsborough, Emerald Lake Hills, Atherton, etc. have also moved away from the Republican Party-but some of these areas have also become more Asian in demographic (though still majority white).

I'm guessing that the younger generations of the WASP gentry are much more culturally progressive than their parents and grandparents and have been turned off by the anti-intellectual, anti-"elitist" rhetoric of the modern GOP. Additionally, Democrats like Obama would appeal to affluent urban sophisticates anyway.

[Torie]

Yes, a few decades ago, a lot of WASPS (often retirees) fled the east coast condos of Florida and the environs because it was getting "too" Jewish.  Far more then than now, there really was often a cultural clash. Middle to upper middle class Midwestern WASPS just had a different style typically than Jewish folks from New York, who back then,  probably had a bit lower SES on average to boot.