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| | |-+  Should NATO be abolished?
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Question: Should NATO be abolished?
Yes   -20 (55.6%)
No   -16 (44.4%)
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Total Voters: 36

Author Topic: Should NATO be abolished?  (Read 3019 times)
greenforest32
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« on: March 09, 2012, 10:31:39 pm »
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Yes.

The USSR is gone and even if it wasn't, the other European countries could defend themselves against it.
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dead0man
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 10:39:31 pm »
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No.  Even if they can defend themselves against any likely threat, it still doesn't hurt to be friends with a lot of like minded nations.  If nothing else it makes them less likely to start sh**t with each other.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 10:40:03 pm »
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forest for the trees question life ends barriers onto the reef come to believe in the process.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2012, 10:45:33 pm »
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No.  Even if they can defend themselves against any likely threat, it still doesn't hurt to be friends with a lot of like minded nations.  If nothing else it makes them less likely to start sh**t with each other.

Since when is a military partnership a requirement "to be friends"?

forest for the trees question life ends barriers onto the reef come to believe in the process.

Put down the crack if you wish to communicate.
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tweed
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 10:48:44 pm »
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hand in your chest?  hand in your existence... push along, push along young squire!  we don't know who you are and as such we romanticize... you are our text-back after a given time, a saviour
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dead0man
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 10:55:55 pm »
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No.  Even if they can defend themselves against any likely threat, it still doesn't hurt to be friends with a lot of like minded nations.  If nothing else it makes them less likely to start sh**t with each other.

Since when is a military partnership a requirement "to be friends"?
It's not, but it certainly makes friends closer.  It's better to have more close friends versus fewer distant friends.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 11:24:06 pm »
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So long as Russia remains under its authoritarian regime -whether under Putin or one of his minions- it will always present itself as a potential threat to Europe through its sheer proximity to the continent, thus understating the continued importance of NATO (and by extension, the United States) in protecting it. 

So the answer is 'no', it should not be disbanded -yet. 
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Franzl
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 05:12:08 am »
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Pointless idea.
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R2D2
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 12:00:40 pm »
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Yes yes yes.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 05:39:28 pm »
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No - it would be preferable to rename the organization and encourage states participating in the Partnership for Peace (especially Russia) to join. However - falling short of that - I get the feeling that NATO tends to drive a wedge between between First and some ex-Second World countries.
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"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to see realized." ~ Nelson Mandela
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 06:20:01 pm »
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Abolishing IGOs ultimately means that they're less ways for political science majors to make money after graduation.
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politicus
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 06:21:27 pm »
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NATO helps make the Baltic countries and Poland feel save from potential Russian aggression, which is a good thing - even if Russian aggression is highly unlikely. Otherwise paranoid nationalists will be too powerfull in those countries.
Plus it is binding Turkey to the Western world. Since it is increasingly unlikely that Turkey will be able to join the EU it is vital to have NATO for binding the Turks to the West.
NATO's command structure is also a usefull framework for conducting joint international military operations. Obviously the US will play a smaller part in the defence of Europe in the long run with increased military cooperation in the EU, but I see no point in abolishing NATO all together.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 10:14:44 am by politicus »Logged

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Redalgo
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 06:50:58 pm »
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I get the feeling that NATO tends to drive a wedge between between First and some ex-Second World countries.
What do you mean? The "Second World" is the Americas.

In an outmoded Cold War context, some Americans use the term First World in reference to the arguably "capitalist" countries advocating liberal or social democracy, Second World as a label for countries deemed "communist" advocating Marxist-Leninist ideologies, and Third World to describe unaligned, mostly developing countries not an integral part of the geopolitical struggle. Many folks might have a different understanding of it though. In the States, I reckon the Old World refers to Europe, Asia, and Africa while the New World is in reference to the Americas.
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"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to see realized." ~ Nelson Mandela
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2012, 06:52:34 pm »
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Pointless idea.

If any, the supporters of keeping NATO are the ones who need to demostrate the point of their idea.
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politicus
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 07:15:24 pm »
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Pointless idea.

If any, the supporters of keeping NATO are the ones who need to demostrate the point of their idea.
Frodo and I just did.
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Every time I see Denmark I just want to punch it in the face...
dead0man
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2012, 11:18:25 pm »
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What do you mean? The "Second World" is the Americas.
Nope.  Second World
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The term "Second World" is a phrase used to describe the communist states within the Soviet Union's sphere of influence or those countries that had centrally-planned economies.[1] Along with "First World" and "Third World", the term was used to divide the nations of Earth into three broad categories. In other words, the concept of "Second World" was a construct of the Cold War and the term has largely fallen out of use since the revolutions of 1989..

Blue is 1st
Red is 2nd
Green is 3rd
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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BRTD
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2012, 02:46:21 am »
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No, because it served as embarrassment to Bush when most NATO countries opposed invading Iraq.
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2012, 04:36:58 am »
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Yes.
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politicus
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2012, 04:53:44 pm »
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It is  shame that this thread seems to be dead. We never really got around to a real debate and it is an interesting topic. But no arguments from the NATO opponents.
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Every time I see Denmark I just want to punch it in the face...
Deadly Poisonous Zanzibar Hamster
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 08:16:58 pm »
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Yeah, it's a leftover from the Cold War that's gotten stale.
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Convincing BRTD to drop the Sneakers O'Toole BS is like convincing Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off.

(I realize I'm probably just further encouraging him by saying that, and for this I apologize.)
dead0man
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 11:19:22 pm »
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I can't believe "yes" is winning when they've given nothing for an argument other than "cold war leftover" derp.  Decaying NIKE missile sites are a cold war leftovers.  Tens of thousands of square boring apartment buildings dotted across the ex-Soviet Union are Cold War leftovers.  NATO is the most important alliance of "good" nations there is.  You can make some decent arguments against expansion (I'd disagree, but that doesn't mean they are bad arguments), but to say it should go away is....well, I don't know what it is, but it certainly doesn't make any sense.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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