Does God Exist?

[Tidewater_Wave]

In my years as a scholar, I've heard alot of plausable and poor theories. I've never heard anything as stupid as matter just appeared from nowhere and things began to exist for no reason.

[Tidewater_Wave]

The "it makes no sense for something to come out of nothing" argument for God's existence makes no logical sense itself.

If God sprang out of the void, then it does not follow that nothing else could not have also sprung out.

If God is eternal, then it does not follow that there could not be other eternal things.

And last but not not least, if one takes the theological position the God is the universe and the universe is God, then they are one and the same.

In short, while cosmology can help determine the logical validity of particular theologies, it is of no use in determining the logical validity of theism itself.

God by definition exists outside of time and therefore outside of our understanding. To say "God would've sprang from nowhere" is an oxymoron because God cannot have a beginning or an end as that which is all being. I don't really get into theology when debating the existence of a creator or God. Theology is more for what God is rather than if God exists. That's a good question about eternity but as finite creatures I don't think we're capable of fully grasping the eternal or infinite.

Someone else mentioned a Ph.D. I have no Ph.D and never claimed to.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Someone else mentioned a Ph.D. I have no Ph.D and never claimed to.

I did.  since you are a scholar, what degrees do you have, and in what?

I'm sending you a private message rather than stating where I've attended and the degrees I've earned and I hope that you honor the privacy.

[Tidewater_Wave]

and for the record I do have a B.A. as well as have attended graduate school

[Tidewater_Wave]

God by definition exists outside of time and therefore outside of our understanding. To say "God would've sprang from nowhere" is an oxymoron because God cannot have a beginning or an end as that which is all being. I don't really get into theology when debating the existence of a creator or God. Theology is more for what God is rather than if God exists. That's a good question about eternity but as finite creatures I don't think we're capable of fully grasping the eternal or infinite.

...Your response wasn't really on-point to his post, and you also ignored my post for no apparent reason.

I'm sorry which post?

[Tidewater_Wave]

Yes by definition. What we know to be a first mover or first cause, first essence is what is God. Now the presence of God is highly flawed by religion, especially in ancient times but the idea of God throughout history does show the evolution of what we know is not God; humanity and every other part of matter. I must ask; are you referring to the God of Christianity or monotheism or a creator?

If you define God as an entity that can just come into existence, why can't the universe just come into existence, or whatever?  Is anything capable of just coming into existence definitionally "God"?

God never began to exist nor will God ever cease to exist.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Yes by definition. What we know to be a first mover or first cause, first essence is what is God. Now the presence of God is highly flawed by religion, especially in ancient times but the idea of God throughout history does show the evolution of what we know is not God; humanity and every other part of matter. I must ask; are you referring to the God of Christianity or monotheism or a creator?

If you define God as an entity that can just come into existence, why can't the universe just come into existence, or whatever?  Is anything capable of just coming into existence definitionally "God"?

God never began to exist nor will God ever cease to exist.

If God can be a causeless agent, why can't the universe or the universe's cause?  Why does a causeless agent have to be a deity?

Then in that case the universe would be a God. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deity. By universe do you mean all that is?

[Tidewater_Wave]

Yes by definition. What we know to be a first mover or first cause, first essence is what is God. Now the presence of God is highly flawed by religion, especially in ancient times but the idea of God throughout history does show the evolution of what we know is not God; humanity and every other part of matter. I must ask; are you referring to the God of Christianity or monotheism or a creator?

If you define God as an entity that can just come into existence, why can't the universe just come into existence, or whatever?  Is anything capable of just coming into existence definitionally "God"?

God never began to exist nor will God ever cease to exist.

If God can be a causeless agent, why can't the universe or the universe's cause?  Why does a causeless agent have to be a deity?

Actually yes the universe's cause can be a causeless agent. I misread your first question due to the hour. That universe's cause is what we know to be God.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Then in that case the universe would be a God. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deity. By universe do you mean all that is?

err...so, if my very not-sentient coffee mug was a causeless entity, it would definitionally be God?  This is just not what I think people mean when they say "God"

Yes the presence of God has been highly exaggerated throughout history.

[Tidewater_Wave]

Maybe. To give a flat out yes or no would be rather arrogant, considering the absolute lack of tangible proof on either side of the argument.

This is along the lines of what I've been saying. It's not possible for the finite to completely grasp the infinite in terms of understanding. Also, there is the flying spaghetti monster argument that scholars throw out there in order to combat the argument that we can't disprove God's existence. I find the first mover argument to be better though if one is arguing for God's existence. I mean they're right we can't disprove the existence of a flying spaghetti monster just because we haven't seen one, but then I raise that a flying spaghetti monster does not have to exist. Something that we know to be a first cause or first essence to quote Aquinas is what we know to be God. Shadows of this can be seen in deism where God started the universe as if winding up a clock and letting it run on its own. There are alot of theories out there but "matter just coming into existence on its own for no reason" is likely the worst theory I've ever heard or read. We'll never prove or disprove God's existence so the heated arguments over it are trivial.

[Tidewater_Wave]

There are alot of theories out there but "matter just coming into existence on its own for no reason" is likely the worst theory I've ever heard or read.

Why?

Where there is a design, there is a designer. I've never seen something just spring out of nowhere.

[Tidewater_Wave]

There are alot of theories out there but "matter just coming into existence on its own for no reason" is likely the worst theory I've ever heard or read.

Why?

Where there is a design, there is a designer. I've never seen something just spring out of nowhere.

Ever heard of 'begging the question'?

Yes and no one has to agree with me that there is a God. I've stated before that I'm not advocating the angry YHWH from the Old Testament or any particular deity. It's great to wonder. With as complex as our universe is, I find it very hard to believe that we're alone.

[Tidewater_Wave]

It doesn't matter and you will never get anywhere thinking about it, as entertaining as it is. Whether or not god or even the universe outside of my consciousness exists has no tangible effect on my desire for a satisfying blip of sentience.

We're getting into Cartesian Dualism now where evil demons play tricks on us to make us think we're really real.