Santorum tells Puerto Ricans to speak English if they want to be a state.

[big bad fab]

Yessss !
First good news of the day for Mitt !

[Wisconsin+17]

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And the fact that 100 percent (as according to your survey), do in fact speak some English?

Read it again.

It gives percentages for 'very well' and 'less than very well'.

The survey doesn't actually tell you how many Puerto Ricans do not speak English.

[ajb]

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I believe the Puerto Rican government uses both unofficially. Officially they are a US territory, which means de-facto requirement to use English.

According to Puerto Rico's Law 1 of 1993, English and Spanish are the two official languages of Puerto Rico. A previous law, in 1991, had made Spanish the sole official language; Puerto Rico enacted both pieces of legislation itself, as provided for under the Treaty of Paris and relevant US legislation. Furthermore, the Constitution of 1952, enacted by the United States Congress, and ratified by President Truman, provides that all members of the Legislative Assembly of Puerto Rico must speak either English or Spanish. I'm not clear how or where you're finding this de facto requirement to use English, but on a de jure level it's clear that congress has repeatedly, since at least 1903, accepted the use of Spanish as an official language in Puerto Rico.

[ajb]

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And the fact that 100 percent (as according to your survey), do in fact speak some English?

Read it again.

It gives percentages for 'very well' and 'less than very well'.

The survey doesn't actually tell you how many Puerto Ricans do not speak English.

Actually, no. The table I cited gives no percentages for "very well," so I don't know where you're getting that from. If you are looking at a different page on the US Census website with that information, please provide the URL. Since, by your own admission, the ACS does not provide information on how many Puerto Ricans do not speak English, it cannot possibly demonstrate that 100% do in fact speak some English.

[Hash]

J.J. has competition.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Supremacy clause + Territorial clause.

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So while Puerto Rico can pass bills, any conflict between them and the US constitution goes to the US constitution. Puerto Rico is required to use english in any communication between them and the US. They are permitted to use Spanish within Puerto Rico, but not for any communication outside of Puerto Rico.

They also can't make it Spanish only for the same reason. Anything that conflicts rules in favor of the US Constitution.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Your own table does not give figures for 'uses no English'. Ergo, it assumes that there is 100 percent English usage in Puerto Rico.

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Nor can it demonstrate that fewer than 100 percent do, in fact speak English. See my point? You can't determine anything at all from how they worded that question in their survey.

It's completely useless.

[patrick1]

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And the fact that 100 percent (as according to your survey), do in fact speak some English?

Read it again.

It gives percentages for 'very well' and 'less than very well'.

The survey doesn't actually tell you how many Puerto Ricans do not speak English.

Ben, stop digging. You will find better English spoken in most parts of W Europe.

Romney essentially has the same position so I don't see the issue.

[ajb]

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Supremacy clause + Territorial clause.

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So while Puerto Rico can pass bills, any conflict between them and the US constitution goes to the US constitution. Puerto Rico is required to use english in any communication between them and the US. They are permitted to use Spanish within Puerto Rico, but not for any communication outside of Puerto Rico.

They also can't make it Spanish only for the same reason. Anything that conflicts rules in favor of the US Constitution.

Explain the conflict between the US constitution and Puerto Rico adopting Spanish as its sole official language. Remember that the English language has no official standing in the US Constitution.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Yeah, and? English is spoken quite well by non-native folks, especially the Dutch.

If your point is that they speak English as well as the Dutch, that's not really helping your case.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Privileges and Immunities. US Citizens in Puerto Rico have the right to use English, just as they do everywhere else. Puerto Rico can't tell Americans from other parts of the US that they cannot reside there, and those residents (as well as native residents in Puerto Rico), have the same rights to access to government services in English as they have elsewhere in the US.

This is why this was changed back to English + Spanish.

[ajb]

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Privileges and Immunities. US Citizens in Puerto Rico have the right to use English, just as they do everywhere else. Puerto Rico can't tell Americans from other parts of the US that they cannot reside there, and those residents (as well as native residents in Puerto Rico), have the same rights to access to government services in English as they have elsewhere in the US.

This is why this was changed back to English + Spanish.

Why would Americans have the right to use English, as opposed to any other language?

[patrick1]

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Yeah, and? English is spoken quite well by non-native folks, especially the Dutch.

If your point is that they speak English as well as the Dutch, that's not really helping your case.

Ben, my only point is that you made an incorrect assertion and are stubbornly refusing to accept that.  PR is a Spanish speaking island and to try to imply otherwise was wrong. The quality of English spoken varies widely but on the whole it is poor.  

Now doesnt Romney support English as an official language? I see no real effective difference.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

J.J. has competition.

1+

[TJ in Oregon]

This was a really, really stupid thing to say. Since when does the federal government have the power to control what language the state government uses? And even if it did, why should it?

[Wisconsin+17]

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Louisiana's debates would be helpful here. I'll see if I can find them.  

[Wisconsin+17]

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What assertion did I make that was incorrect?

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Did I say anything concerning the percentage of Spanish speakers in PR. You seem to assume that someone who speaks english cannot speak Spanish. All I am saying is that a vast majority of Puerto Ricans have the ability to understand and communicate to some degree of fluency in English as well as Spanish.

You've jumped all over me here with your assumptions without taking the time to realize that I am in fact correct here.

Now, if you want to continue this discussion, I'm happy to, but you've not correctly understood my assertion.

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Actually, your 'survey' never employs the use of the word poor. I'm not sure how you conclude from your survey that their use of English is poor.  

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I'm not sure what his opinion is, this is the first I've heard Santorum's argument.

As I said earlier, I disagree with making English de jure the language of the United States.

[Wisconsin+17]

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From what I can see the 1991 legislation in Puerto Rico only applied to native Puerto Rican residents, not to American Citizens from elsewhere. So it wouldn't have stripped the English language rights for the folks who speak English who weren't from Puerto Rico.

And it's moot anyways, because the policy is gone and has been the same as it's been for the last 50 years.

[Wiz in Wis]

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What assertion did I make that was incorrect?

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Did I say anything concerning the percentage of Spanish speakers in PR. You seem to assume that someone who speaks english cannot speak Spanish. All I am saying is that a vast majority of Puerto Ricans have the ability to understand and communicate to some degree of fluency in English as well as Spanish.

You've jumped all over me here with your assumptions without taking the time to realize that I am in fact correct here.

Now, if you want to continue this discussion, I'm happy to, but you've not correctly understood my assertion.

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Actually, your 'survey' never employs the use of the word poor. I'm not sure how you conclude from your survey that their use of English is poor.  

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I'm not sure what his opinion is, this is the first I've heard Santorum's argument.

As I said earlier, I disagree with making English de jure the language of the United States.

By your definition, the United States is overwhelmingly Spanish speaking, since at least 20% (including Puerto Rico) are native Spanish speakers and a good proportion of the rest took some Spanish in High School. Not to mention that, in many parts of the country, the proclivity of Hispanics means that many, if not most residents, can speak passable Spanish for everyday activity. I mean I took 4 years in HS and know how to say "Hola, me llamo Wiz in Wis, mi esposa y yo estamos en el estado de Massachusetts hoy"

Clearly, I'm a Spanish speaker in a Spanish speaking country.

[Wisconsin+17]

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What is my definition?

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Where did I say 20 percent of the population being native speakers of the language made them 'overwhelmingly spanish speaking'?

I'd like to see where I see me use that number anywhere.

I'm actually discussing English as a second language in Puerto Rico as justification for my statement that Puerto Rico is overwhelmingly English speaking.

Now, if you can show me anywhere close to 80 percent of Americans speaking Spanish as a first or second language, I'd be happy to say the same for America in general.

Have at it.

[ag]

I guess, the conclusion of this thread should be that Ben Karoubi

a. Does not know much about the US constitution
b. Is not fully English-speaking - which might explaing (a) 

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Or we could make Rick Santorum learn Spanish if he wants to become President.

[ajb]

FWIW, English and Hawaiian are both official languages in Hawaii.

[Tidewater_Wave]

I think Santorum is falling apart and doing whatever it takes to sound conservative at this point. He's looking like he lacks depth too.

[redcommander]

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I believe the Puerto Rican government uses both unofficially. Officially they are a US territory, which means de-facto requirement to use English.

According to Puerto Rico's Law 1 of 1993, English and Spanish are the two official languages of Puerto Rico. A previous law, in 1991, had made Spanish the sole official language; Puerto Rico enacted both pieces of legislation itself, as provided for under the Treaty of Paris and relevant US legislation. Furthermore, the Constitution of 1952, enacted by the United States Congress, and ratified by President Truman, provides that all members of the Legislative Assembly of Puerto Rico must speak either English or Spanish. I'm not clear how or where you're finding this de facto requirement to use English, but on a de jure level it's clear that congress has repeatedly, since at least 1903, accepted the use of Spanish as an official language in Puerto Rico.

So Santorum's arguement is completely off the wall, and he could have prevented a gaffe like this if he had just googled the official language of Puerto Rico.