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Author Topic: Education Policy  (Read 1757 times)
Tidewater_Wave
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« on: March 14, 2012, 08:21:06 pm »
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Charter Schools and Education Reform:

1. Parents should be allowed to use school taxes as school vouchers if they have kids in school.
2. Build and encourage more charter schools to achieve smaller classrooms.
3. The government does not have the authority to tell our kids to wear uniforms.
4. Pledge of Allegiance is mandatory for schools funded by our tax dollars.
5. Under God is part of our Pledge of Allegiance.
6. Teachers have the right to unionize but not the right to force unionization.
7. Teachers may not discuss unions or political views with students.
8. Shift education decisions from bureaucrats to parents. Who is raising your children?
9. Government run day care programs is nothing more than cradle to grave mentality.
10. Eliminate Head Start Programs and use money to build charter schools.
11. Leave sexual education for families to teach.
12. Leave abstinence for parents to teach.
13. Teach responsibility and consequences not scare tactics and legality of drugs.
14. Constitutional amendment allowing voluntary school prayer but not teacher led.
15. Allow students to have part time jobs at their schools to encourage responsibility at an early age starting in 4th grade.
16. After school jobs cannot exceed 13 hours per week.
17. Students should be required to take a 10 minute break for each hour of work.
19. School days should run later to bring down after school crime rates.
18. Free speech zones at colleges are an insult to those who died in the name of free speech.
19. Sexual education in kindergarten is NAMBLAís dream.
20. Fund more toward teaching English to immigrants who are insufficient in English.

Affirmative Action Policy:

1. Charter schools receiving aid may not discriminate based on race or ethnicity.
2. The University of Michigan must repeal its policy on racial preference.
3. Top 10% of each graduating class has a guaranteed acceptance to state schools.
4. Affirmative Action gives minorities and immigrants a better chance.

Student Loans Policy:

1. Allow banks to have the freedom to lend money for college.
2. Pell Grants are ok.
3. Loans are to be paid back in money, not enslavement to the federal government.
4. No work program in exchange for loan payments; only furthers government dependency.
5. Reimbursement for college graduates so that no graduate owes the federal government more than $60,000 when graduating.
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 11:26:20 pm »
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4. Affirmative Action gives minorities and immigrants a better chance.
LOLNO
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dead0man
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 11:42:33 pm »
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4. Pledge of Allegiance is mandatory for schools funded by our tax dollars.
Even private schools accepting vouchers?
Quote
5. Under God is part of our Pledge of Allegiance.
It wasn't for your grandpa when he was in school...was he less of an American (or Christian for that matter...assuming he was of course)
Quote
7. Teachers may not discuss unions or political views with students.
Even in a class on politics?
Quote
8. Shift education decisions from bureaucrats to parents. Who is raising your children?
I understand your point, but really, are "parents" going to be any better?  What if the parents want Intelligent Design taught in school?
Quote
11. Leave sexual education for families to teach.
It's an option...a dumb one, but an option.  My kids have never gotten sexual education without me signing a stupid form first.  I'm assuming if I didn't sign it, they would be excused for that part of the class.  Removing sexual education from the schools entirely would be one of the dumber things we could do to our children.
Quote
14. Constitutional amendment allowing voluntary school prayer but not teacher led.
You can already pray at school, millions do it every day
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18. Free speech zones at colleges are an insult to those who died in the name of free speech.
In what way?
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 01:00:42 am »
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4. Pledge of Allegiance is mandatory for schools funded by our tax dollars.
Even private schools accepting vouchers?
Quote
5. Under God is part of our Pledge of Allegiance.
It wasn't for your grandpa when he was in school...was he less of an American (or Christian for that matter...assuming he was of course)
Quote
7. Teachers may not discuss unions or political views with students.
Even in a class on politics?
Quote
8. Shift education decisions from bureaucrats to parents. Who is raising your children?
I understand your point, but really, are "parents" going to be any better?  What if the parents want Intelligent Design taught in school?
Quote
11. Leave sexual education for families to teach.
It's an option...a dumb one, but an option.  My kids have never gotten sexual education without me signing a stupid form first.  I'm assuming if I didn't sign it, they would be excused for that part of the class.  Removing sexual education from the schools entirely would be one of the dumber things we could do to our children.
Quote
14. Constitutional amendment allowing voluntary school prayer but not teacher led.
You can already pray at school, millions do it every day
Quote
18. Free speech zones at colleges are an insult to those who died in the name of free speech.
In what way?

Yes even for private schools.

Yes even in a class for politics, but I was specifically mentioning their own points of view rather than different views in general.

My grandpa can't help how the pledge of allegiance was when he was in school.

Parents know best and even if they don't in a few cases such as crack moms, it's still the right thing to do. Who am I to tell you where to send Johnny or Suzie to school?

Sexual education just isn't a school subject to me for the most part. Teach about the basics but that's it. No teaching sexual positions to elementary school students and no more reading "The Two Princes" to kindergardeners because they aren't ready to hear that yet. It only confuses them.

True but I would like to see it in the constitution so that it can't be taken away.

If a college student wants to speak about an idea or bill outside of a classroom, then they should be able to with the amount of money they're giving the government to go to school in alot of cases. Many died so that the U.S. could be its own nation and at the cornerstone of our nation is the freedom of speech. That cannot be silenced in terms of stating political views or ideas.

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dead0man
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 01:28:26 am »
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My grandpa can't help how the pledge of allegiance was when he was in school.
My point being that for the longest time, God wasn't mentioned in the pledge.  It didn't make Americans less American or less religious.  Honestly, I don't care if it's in there or not, but I've got no problem with people who don't believe in God, but love America to leave that part out of the pledge.  And for people who have something against America or pledges in general to stand silently.  (though I do have issues with people that make a big deal out of NOT saying the pledge during the pledge)
Quote
Parents know best and even if they don't in a few cases such as crack moms, it's still the right thing to do. Who am I to tell you where to send Johnny or Suzie to school?
Parents are no more likely to "know best" than bureaucrats.  Get rid of sh**tty bureaucrats, sure, but putting parents in charge of school decisions isn't going to end well in a lot of places.
Quote
Sexual education just isn't a school subject to me for the most part. Teach about the basics but that's it. No teaching sexual positions to elementary school students and no more reading "The Two Princes" to kindergardeners because they aren't ready to hear that yet. It only confuses them.
While I agree with you here, I don't think these things happen all that often (if ever).  If you think they do, you'll need to give me a cite.
Quote
True but I would like to see it in the constitution so that it can't be taken away.
How could it be taken away?  Prayer doesn't have to be a show, it can be a silent conversation between you and your god. Kind of hard, nay, kind of impossible to take that away.
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 02:08:30 am »
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'The Two Princes' would confuse a kindergartener much less than it would most fifth- or sixth-graders, because kindergarteners haven't had as much time to absorb assumptions that mark such things as the sort of things that 'should' be confusing.

You also aren't supposed to use the Constitution to score points on issues quite that ridiculously specific.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 05:36:31 am »
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'The Two Princes' would confuse a kindergartener much less than it would most fifth- or sixth-graders, because kindergarteners haven't had as much time to absorb assumptions that mark such things as the sort of things that 'should' be confusing.

You also aren't supposed to use the Constitution to score points on issues quite that ridiculously specific.

I fundamentally disagree that kindergardeners would be less confused than fifth graders. Teaching them about homosexuality is NAMBLA's dream. What are you talking about with the constitution?
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 05:40:01 am »
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My grandpa can't help how the pledge of allegiance was when he was in school.
My point being that for the longest time, God wasn't mentioned in the pledge.  It didn't make Americans less American or less religious.  Honestly, I don't care if it's in there or not, but I've got no problem with people who don't believe in God, but love America to leave that part out of the pledge.  And for people who have something against America or pledges in general to stand silently.  (though I do have issues with people that make a big deal out of NOT saying the pledge during the pledge)
Quote
Parents know best and even if they don't in a few cases such as crack moms, it's still the right thing to do. Who am I to tell you where to send Johnny or Suzie to school?
Parents are no more likely to "know best" than bureaucrats.  Get rid of sh**tty bureaucrats, sure, but putting parents in charge of school decisions isn't going to end well in a lot of places.
Quote
Sexual education just isn't a school subject to me for the most part. Teach about the basics but that's it. No teaching sexual positions to elementary school students and no more reading "The Two Princes" to kindergardeners because they aren't ready to hear that yet. It only confuses them.
While I agree with you here, I don't think these things happen all that often (if ever).  If you think they do, you'll need to give me a cite.
Quote
True but I would like to see it in the constitution so that it can't be taken away.
How could it be taken away?  Prayer doesn't have to be a show, it can be a silent conversation between you and your god. Kind of hard, nay, kind of impossible to take that away.

Cite you that "The Two Princes" can confuse students?

You're welcome to disagree with me on "Under God."

Who am I, you, or anyone to tell someone where they have to send their kids to school?

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R2D2
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 08:10:41 am »
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4. Pledge of Allegiance is mandatory for schools funded by our tax dollars.*
5. Under God is part of our Pledge of Allegiance.**
11. Leave sexual education for families to teach.***
12. Leave abstinence for parents to teach.****
14. Constitutional amendment allowing voluntary school prayer but not teacher led.*****
15. Allow students to have part time jobs at their schools to encourage responsibility at an early age starting in 4th grade.******
16. After school jobs cannot exceed 13 hours per week.
17. Students should be required to take a 10 minute break for each hour of work.
19. School days should run later to bring down after school crime rates.*******
19. Sexual education in kindergarten is NAMBLAís dream.********

Affirmative Action Policy:

3. Top 10% of each graduating class has a guaranteed acceptance to state schools.*********

Okay, so I had a few good laughs while reading this.

* = The Pledge of Allegiance should always be optional in any school. You cannot force a student to say anything. It's an intrusion on the individual right of a student to say it.

** = Yes it is, but it should not be mandated that it must be said. I am not a believer in God, but I say the Pledge of Allegiance every single morning. Instead of "one nation, under God" I say "one nation, under Canada" because, while I personally feel it necessary for me to say it, I do not feel it necessary to pledge my allegiance to any God.

*** = Some families feel uncomfortable teaching their young about sex, therefore, the schools should be able to teach it. However, parents should be allowed to teach their kids about sex. I didn't learn about sex from my parents nor my school, I learned from my older friends and the internet.

**** = See above.

***** = Religion does NOT belong in school. Period. It leads to shoving one particular religion down the throats of America's youth. Not all kids are of the same religion.

****** = Child labor, plain and simple. Allow kids to get out-of-school jobs, but not in-school. I'm 15 and I still can't find a job.

******* = As a student, I disagree with this 100%. There's still in-school violence, so it doesn't matter when school gets out. Kids are still going to be violent towards each other, unfortunately.

******** = This is one of the more senseless and ignorant things I've ever heard anywhere ever. I shouldn't have to explain why that is.

********* = What?
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 03:40:36 pm »
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4. Pledge of Allegiance is mandatory for schools funded by our tax dollars.*
5. Under God is part of our Pledge of Allegiance.**
11. Leave sexual education for families to teach.***
12. Leave abstinence for parents to teach.****
14. Constitutional amendment allowing voluntary school prayer but not teacher led.*****
15. Allow students to have part time jobs at their schools to encourage responsibility at an early age starting in 4th grade.******
16. After school jobs cannot exceed 13 hours per week.
17. Students should be required to take a 10 minute break for each hour of work.
19. School days should run later to bring down after school crime rates.*******
19. Sexual education in kindergarten is NAMBLAís dream.********

Affirmative Action Policy:

3. Top 10% of each graduating class has a guaranteed acceptance to state schools.*********

Okay, so I had a few good laughs while reading this.

* = The Pledge of Allegiance should always be optional in any school. You cannot force a student to say anything. It's an intrusion on the individual right of a student to say it.

** = Yes it is, but it should not be mandated that it must be said. I am not a believer in God, but I say the Pledge of Allegiance every single morning. Instead of "one nation, under God" I say "one nation, under Canada" because, while I personally feel it necessary for me to say it, I do not feel it necessary to pledge my allegiance to any God.

*** = Some families feel uncomfortable teaching their young about sex, therefore, the schools should be able to teach it. However, parents should be allowed to teach their kids about sex. I didn't learn about sex from my parents nor my school, I learned from my older friends and the internet.

**** = See above.

***** = Religion does NOT belong in school. Period. It leads to shoving one particular religion down the throats of America's youth. Not all kids are of the same religion.

****** = Child labor, plain and simple. Allow kids to get out-of-school jobs, but not in-school. I'm 15 and I still can't find a job.

******* = As a student, I disagree with this 100%. There's still in-school violence, so it doesn't matter when school gets out. Kids are still going to be violent towards each other, unfortunately.

******** = This is one of the more senseless and ignorant things I've ever heard anywhere ever. I shouldn't have to explain why that is.

********* = What?

Right we should let high school students decide what education is like in our country. At 15 most kids don't get hired so perhaps this would help you. I'm not surprised to hear from a teenager though who doesn't want to learn about responsibility.
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R2D2
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 05:22:58 pm »
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I never said we should let teens decide education policy, so don't put words in my mouth. I said we should let teens decide if they want to say the damn pledge of allegiance and if they want to say "under God."

I never said I wasn't willing to accept responsibility either, but I have no interest in being a damn janitor. I'd much rather be a cashier at Rita's Water Ice or some sh*t to get money. I don't want to work at my school. It would be like a Jew working as a janitor at Auschwitz. No way.
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 08:04:48 pm »
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I never said we should let teens decide education policy, so don't put words in my mouth. I said we should let teens decide if they want to say the damn pledge of allegiance and if they want to say "under God."

I never said I wasn't willing to accept responsibility either, but I have no interest in being a damn janitor. I'd much rather be a cashier at Rita's Water Ice or some sh*t to get money. I don't want to work at my school. It would be like a Jew working as a janitor at Auschwitz. No way.

When teens pay the school taxes they may be allowed to have a say so. Right because 15 year olds are so over qualified to be janitors. You should be a doctor right now. I hate to break your teenage fantasy world but everyone starts at smaller jobs that don't pay much and aren't fun. From there, you have a chance to earn your way up by doing well in college or being promoted from such positions. I know someone your age isn't interested in hard labor but it will build character. Then you will look back on it and be proud of how far you've come. No one is forcing you to be a janitor either. I'm sure there are plenty of other children who would love the opportunity to make money. I never said you were forced but you're putting words in my mouth. You aren't alone though either. Most people, myself included wouldn't prefer to be a janitor or have fun with it.
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 08:38:15 pm »
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4. Affirmative Action gives minorities and immigrants a better chance.
LOLNO

Easy for a white to say, isn't it?
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 09:33:06 pm »
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4. Affirmative Action gives minorities and immigrants a better chance.
LOLNO

Easy for a white to say, isn't it?

I don't like it when affirmative action divides people. I think it should be worth admission to state universities, but not outweigh qualifications such as straight A's or a perfect SAT score. Quotas are harder to enforce because it would depend on the applicants.
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Fuzzybigfoot
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 10:13:31 pm »
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Cool thread bro. 
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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2012, 10:22:49 pm »
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Cool thread bro. 

Thanks
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2012, 10:27:00 pm »
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'The Two Princes' would confuse a kindergartener much less than it would most fifth- or sixth-graders, because kindergarteners haven't had as much time to absorb assumptions that mark such things as the sort of things that 'should' be confusing.

You also aren't supposed to use the Constitution to score points on issues quite that ridiculously specific.

I fundamentally disagree that kindergardeners would be less confused than fifth graders. Teaching them about homosexuality is NAMBLA's dream. What are you talking about with the constitution?

Do you think they are being taught about heterosexuality qua heterosexuality via more traditional fairy tales and such? If so, why is it that they should have a concept of heterosexuality? If not, can you admit that a five-year-old is not likely to interpret 'The Two Princes' as sexual and hence will have vanishingly little reason to be confused by a new and interesting type of fairy tale?

I mean exactly what I say with the Constitution. You're using it as a cheap political tool.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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Tidewater_Wave
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2012, 10:40:04 pm »
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'The Two Princes' would confuse a kindergartener much less than it would most fifth- or sixth-graders, because kindergarteners haven't had as much time to absorb assumptions that mark such things as the sort of things that 'should' be confusing.

You also aren't supposed to use the Constitution to score points on issues quite that ridiculously specific.

I fundamentally disagree that kindergardeners would be less confused than fifth graders. Teaching them about homosexuality is NAMBLA's dream. What are you talking about with the constitution?

Do you think they are being taught about heterosexuality qua heterosexuality via more traditional fairy tales and such? If so, why is it that they should have a concept of heterosexuality? If not, can you admit that a five-year-old is not likely to interpret 'The Two Princes' as sexual and hence will have vanishingly little reason to be confused by a new and interesting type of fairy tale?

I mean exactly what I say with the Constitution. You're using it as a cheap political tool.

The constitution pretty much leaves education up to the state. Public schools should talk about inappropriate touching and the basics perhaps but other than that I don't see it being a school subject. You're right about their interpretation of the "Two Princes." Still, it shouldn't even be in the cirriculum. I can't believe tax dollars fund that.
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 07:45:43 am »
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I never said we should let teens decide education policy, so don't put words in my mouth. I said we should let teens decide if they want to say the damn pledge of allegiance and if they want to say "under God."

I never said I wasn't willing to accept responsibility either, but I have no interest in being a damn janitor. I'd much rather be a cashier at Rita's Water Ice or some sh*t to get money. I don't want to work at my school. It would be like a Jew working as a janitor at Auschwitz. No way.

When teens pay the school taxes they may be allowed to have a say so. Right because 15 year olds are so over qualified to be janitors. You should be a doctor right now. I hate to break your teenage fantasy world but everyone starts at smaller jobs that don't pay much and aren't fun. From there, you have a chance to earn your way up by doing well in college or being promoted from such positions. I know someone your age isn't interested in hard labor but it will build character. Then you will look back on it and be proud of how far you've come. No one is forcing you to be a janitor either. I'm sure there are plenty of other children who would love the opportunity to make money. I never said you were forced but you're putting words in my mouth. You aren't alone though either. Most people, myself included wouldn't prefer to be a janitor or have fun with it.

So because kids don't pay taxes, they don't have rights? So someone could murder me and it won't matter because I'm not technically a citizen? Bullsh*t. Get over yourself. Kids are just as much entitled to Constitutional rights as anyone. No sh*t most jobs start on the lower level, but I'm saying I wouldn't want to be a janitor at my school. It's not that I hate the idea of having a job, but I'd much rather be a busboy at some restaurant or something.
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2012, 04:48:45 pm »
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I never said we should let teens decide education policy, so don't put words in my mouth. I said we should let teens decide if they want to say the damn pledge of allegiance and if they want to say "under God."

I never said I wasn't willing to accept responsibility either, but I have no interest in being a damn janitor. I'd much rather be a cashier at Rita's Water Ice or some sh*t to get money. I don't want to work at my school. It would be like a Jew working as a janitor at Auschwitz. No way.

When teens pay the school taxes they may be allowed to have a say so. Right because 15 year olds are so over qualified to be janitors. You should be a doctor right now. I hate to break your teenage fantasy world but everyone starts at smaller jobs that don't pay much and aren't fun. From there, you have a chance to earn your way up by doing well in college or being promoted from such positions. I know someone your age isn't interested in hard labor but it will build character. Then you will look back on it and be proud of how far you've come. No one is forcing you to be a janitor either. I'm sure there are plenty of other children who would love the opportunity to make money. I never said you were forced but you're putting words in my mouth. You aren't alone though either. Most people, myself included wouldn't prefer to be a janitor or have fun with it.

So because kids don't pay taxes, they don't have rights? So someone could murder me and it won't matter because I'm not technically a citizen? Bullsh*t. Get over yourself. Kids are just as much entitled to Constitutional rights as anyone. No sh*t most jobs start on the lower level, but I'm saying I wouldn't want to be a janitor at my school. It's not that I hate the idea of having a job, but I'd much rather be a busboy at some restaurant or something.

Young boy, you have plenty of rights. You have the right to choose not to be a janitor if you do not want to work. Work at McDonalds if you want to. Work at Burger King. Whatever you do, don't tell me because I don't care. You're a citizen alright. A citizen who can't vote. Kids do have constitutional rigths but not to the extent adults do which is why certain products and activities are 18 and up. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were a teenager with the anger and attitude you show. Oh what!
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2012, 09:43:34 pm »
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Go away, Derek.
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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2012, 05:39:24 pm »
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The Pledge of Allegiance is brainwashing fascist crap, and you want to make it mandatory in all schools?
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2012, 06:53:39 pm »
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*** = Some families feel uncomfortable teaching their young about sex, therefore, the schools should be able to teach it. However, parents should be allowed to teach their kids about sex. I didn't learn about sex from my parents nor my school, I learned from my older friends and the internet.


Still, I would hesitate to say that it is the "duty" of schools to teach about sex. It seems to me that in mandating that they do we are creating yet another Big Brother system where the government tries to control people's lives. I find it surprising that so much of the progressive movement is concerned with getting the government out of the bedroom but then turns and tries to force the school system to attempt to control children's sex lives. To me, a staunch libertarian, this represents little more than typical puritanical views toward sex. Even if we're telling kids that sex is wonderful and encouraging kids to be open about it, if we're at the same time saying do this, don't do that wear this, don't wear that are we really all that much better than the Victorian moralists who tried to restrict it altogether?
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2012, 11:57:57 pm »
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This is mind-numbingly stupid... so you don't want to indoctrinate kids with left-wing ideas... yet you're happy to push right-wing views down their throats?
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2012, 02:15:05 am »
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Guys, arguing with a poster who is not just a complete idiot but also banned is just silly.
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
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