China General Discussion

[Simfan34]

You could just say "legalism", there's no need to be obscurantist.

[WMS]

I believe I once identified 'that godawful Fa Jia ideology [ah, Legalism, got it] from the Spring and Autumn Period' as the real governing philosophy of modern China, not communism, Confucianism, or any combination thereof, and I stand by that.

Finally, a decade and a half after pointing this out to my Chinese History professor and getting rebuffed, I can bask in the content glow that I'm not alone.

*goes back to occasional lurking*

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

You could just say "legalism", there's no need to be obscurantist.

The only reason I prefer the Chinese term is because 'legalism' is also a common abstract English noun. Then again, since I'm specifying 'godawful', 'Chinese ideology', and 'Spring and Autumn Period', you're probably right.

Finally, a decade and a half after pointing this out to my Chinese History professor and getting rebuffed, I can bask in the content glow that I'm not alone.

[Foucaulf]

The big news in China remains the torrential downpour which struck Beijing. 77 confirmed deaths, but it's a figure that will definitely rise up; I'm sticking to a final toll of at least 100. The hardest hit area is Fangshan, a mostly rural district of Beijing where more than 70000 houses were washed away.

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. But life goes on - people have to go to work, though the massive migration of labour into Beijing lead to developing the sprawling city we see today.


In other news, Bo Xilai's wife has been officially charged for the death of businessman Neil Heywood today. It is accepted that she killed him over profit-sharing disputes, and was confirmed as such in a Xinhua press release.

[dead0man]

Thousands in Hong Kong protest China patriotism classes

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[dead0man]

China summons US diplomat in South China Sea row

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If the PRC ends up going to war with anybody over this, they are fools and only have themselves to blame for the ass kicking they are going to receive.

[dead0man]

Protests in Vietnam as anger over China's 'bullying' grows

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[dead0man]

Increasingly outspoken military alarms China's leaders

(good lord what a horrible looking url inside that "link")

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[Peter the Lefty]

Just a question about China: to anyone who knows enough about the country to know its general demographics, if it were to become a democracy today and hold elections, how would, say, Conservative, Liberal, Socialist/Social Democratic, Green, and Neo-Communist parties fare given people's general attitudes?

[2952-0-0]

Just a question about China: to anyone who knows enough about the country to know its general demographics, if it were to become a democracy today and hold elections, how would, say, Conservative, Liberal, Socialist/Social Democratic, Green, and Neo-Communist parties fare given people's general attitudes?

Way, way, way too many hypotheticals.

But anyone who thinks that a democratic China will automatically be pro-western is naive and delusional. Even compared to now.

[Foucaulf]

Time for another update, I guess:

-The South Sea dispute is so last month; the latest border flare-up focuses on the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. As the Japanese government prepare their purchase of the islands, thwarting an attempt by Tokyo mayor Shintaro Ishihara, the process has drawn the ire of nationalists and the press. The Chinese government recently fired up their rhetoric and sent a fleet for the first time today.

Unlike the South Sea problem, the Senkakus dispute is a lot more serious. The islands were forked over along with Taiwan to Japan back in the 19th century, but never taken back due to the then-nationalist government's pro-US sentiments and all. That, and hatred of Japan has been a political trope in China for decades.

Would there be shots fired? Probably not. The foreign ministry's at the "strongly condemn" level, and the government's trying to be as rhetorical as possible and to avoid conflict. But the protests and the fleet patrols will be going on for quite awhile, since...

-Xi Jinping is missing. Since his last appearance on September 1, the vice-president of China and heir presumptive to the CPC throne is nowhere to be found. Rumours abound that he has either hurt his back, had a heart attack or got involved in a car crash. Ten days of disappearance is cause for worry (like when former leader Jiang Zemin perhaps died last year), but not long enough for one to assume internal meddling. If it's the latter, then small islands are the last thing Chinese should be worrying about.

[Foucaulf]

Revisions to my previous post:

-The military is eager, and the top brass desperate, for an official American stand on the Senkakus issue. The States don't have a clear position on the issue, but ought to defend against any attempt at invasion. Obviously the Obama administration don't want to get entangled in a diplomatic bear trap two months before the election, but the tactical silence may have prevented immediate gunfire.

There's a correlation between how long Xi Jinping is out for and whether the military acts on its own with a battle over the Senkakus. The next week should show whether a big power vacuum is plaguing China right now - or not. I've conveniently glided over how I can only speak in hypotheticals at this point, but what else can you do when the planned succession seems to be spinning out of control?

[2952-0-0]

The Party Propaganda Office is in this respect still stuck in the old ways. They could easily halt any rumours by releasing a picture showing Xi Jinping sitting on a chair wearing a bedroom gown regardless what's going on in the backrooms. Back problems while swimming is a completely plausible explanation for being away.

Today Xinhua reported that Xi Jinping sent condolences over the death of a veteran general. Which means he's still around doing...something.

[dead0man]

Six China ships near disputed isles: Japan coastguard

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It probably won't, but this could escalate quickly.

[dead0man]

The PRC still doesn't understand how our Freedom of Speech works.

Oregon town angers China with controversial mural

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At least they ain't killing ambassadors.

[dead0man]

Japan warns nationals in China after assaults

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[Foucaulf]

1) I'm sure the Chinese understand what freedom of speech is, but if there's one Marxist concept the elite still retain (and most Chinese learned from instinct) it's that of base and superstructure.

I'm not sure how far up the chain was this Oregon controversy decided. My gut feeling is not very, but now the entire foreign affairs ministry has to defend them.

2) The Senkaku protests are like the Middle Eastern ones going on right now: small and dispersed, but given more media attention then they necessarily need. This is nowhere near the first time there's been a wave of anti-Japanese sentiment. It's just that, now with an expansive social networking system, the protests will go on longer. They're hard to contain when people who burn Japanese cars become internet memes.

The situation is spiraling out of control. High command can control whether Chinese patrol ships fire on the Japanese, but not how certain groups in the country continue to embarrass China further. One can't cover up riot control in the big cities like one does in the countryside.

[dead0man]

One can't cover up riot control in the big cities like one does in the countryside.

They've certainly done it before.  And it's not out of the realm of possibility that these demonstrations are state sponsored.

[Beet]

Chinese people should focus on China's problems and not so much on Japan.

[2952-0-0]

One can't cover up riot control in the big cities like one does in the countryside.

They've certainly done it before.  And it's not out of the realm of possibility that these demonstrations are state sponsored.

You're underestimating the passion of "fenqing". They believe the government is too soft on foreign policy, and many have openly demanded that Japan be wiped out of existence. They believe that Japan is merely being used as a surrogate by its puppet master as part of its grand strategy towards the Pacific, which is considered shameful. But even then there's a general sense that the government isn't standing up for China (e.g. "why are we lending trillions of dollars to a country that hates us?"). So the government doesn't want these riots to occur, but is simply more afraid of harshly cracking down on these rioters than peasants rioting over land grabs.

[dead0man]

So they are like Egypt then, with much of the populace clamoring for a war the leaders know they'd lose.

[Beet]

These "fenqing"? It is astonishing and depressing how anyone could still adhere to fascism in this world!

[Foucaulf]

In the past few days the protests have turned violent. The strategy adopted by anti-Japanese activists has been to "boycott Japanese goods", also intimidating others from buying or showing theirs off. In cities like Beijing, the greatest extent this boycott has been a drop in Japanese restaurant visits. It's in Central and Southern China where one starts seeing Japanese cars and factories being burned.

Most of the Chinese literati never bought into the Senkakus outrage, and they're helping turn public opinion against the hooliganish fenging ("angry youths"). The media is backpedalling quite a bit, too.

Even then I'm sure the average Chinese thinks the Senkakus purchase both reflects a consensus among the Japanese and a shock tactic from a belligerent Japanese government, which is clearly not the case. I can't really blame the CPC for that, though. There are forces within the party who benefits from jingoism, but very few who empathizes with the rabble.

[2952-0-0]

All this was started by Hong Kong-based pro-democracy activists who landed on the islands in question on the anniversary of Japan's surrender, and then were seized by the Japanese coast guard. The next day there were spontaneous anti-Japanese riots in dozens of Chinese cities. From the perspective of these pro-democracy activists it was a very shrewd and clever way to provoke the Chinese people to spontaneously riot for *any* reason.

So, in fact, the CPC never wanted to provoke anti-Japanese sentiment, but is now forced to by a few political dissidents. That is unless they're the best manipulators in all history and even have dissidents on their payroll.

[anvi]

China sending ships to those waters just to appease a few protestors in Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen is really quite silly.  Despite some mild fusses, nobody made much of a deal out of those islands until they were identified as possible oil exploration targets in the late '60's.  The U.S. military has actually used one of them, with the permission of the Japanese government, for training exercises in the last few decades too.  Chinese protestors have intermittently grown hot and bothered about Japan and boycotted Japanese goods since the May 4th movement in 1919.  But, despite the fact that the islands sometimes, as a proxy, inspire hostilities that are over other stuff, China is not going to get in any real skirmish with Japan over them.  They're really not that stupid.  Even with their constitution and self-defense forces provisions, Japan has outstanding air force technology (they make most of our warplane electronics and wing tech), and their naval armada, I'm told, is larger than the British fleet.  They also give lots of annual aid money to China and were the first international helpers on the scene after the terrible earthquake in Sichuan in 2010.  So, for all the aggrieved chest-beating, China is not really going to throw down over those tiny islands.  Both countries have much more important things to worry about.