Anti-Americanism on this board

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I know I am inviting an onslaught here... I have noticed a hell of a lot of Anti-Americanism among you all discussing foreign policy...I have one question for this board as a whole

That Chinaman who comes on here to get homework help- if he started bashing Hu Jintao and his government he would get his door kicked in one night...same for many othe rcountries around the world. Here you all are calling the USA evil and the cause of all disruption in the world and wishing for other countries to win a war against us- yet you are allowed to do so and aren't arrested for it.

Do you ever think about this and if so why does it not give you a positive opinion of the country that gives you this freedom?

[Хahar 🤔]

There are many other countries with those freedoms that don't see fit to practice imperialism.

Also, "Chinaman" is offensive.

[greenforest32]

What is your implication? That because you can speak freely, everything else gets a free pass?

Talk about low standards.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Criticizing the US's actions =/= Antiamericanism. It's sad to see people unable to make such a basic difference.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

"Dissent is the greatest form of Patriotism."

Criticizing the US's actions =/= Antiamericanism.

This.

I love America, but I love freedom too. When there is war, there is no freedom...for anyone. Government expands domestically, civilians are killed abroad, it's just never good for anyone.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Criticizing the US's actions =/= Antiamericanism. It's sad to see people unable to make such a basic difference.

It is sad to see people unable to make a difference between government actions and a nation... calling America an imperialist, violent, evil nation which is the cause of all the world's bad goes beyond criticizing George W for the Iraq War...
When people vote that they would prefer Iran in a war against the USA- that is Anti-American...that is a post I spent little time on because I know that whatever I wrote would fall on blind eyes...however wanting Iran to win means wanting the USA to lose that war- wanting our troops to die rather then Iran's. To me this crosses the line...not wanting us to go to war with Iran is a legitimate view- wanting us to lose a war is Anti-American

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

To me this crosses the line...not wanting us to go to war with Iran is a legitimate view- wanting us to lose a war is Anti-American

If the U.S. is an agressive part, I can't support the U.S.

I do not support agressors. Period.

[Middle-aged Europe]

It's called free speech. If you don't like the content of the speech you either debate it or ignore it. The debate could be conducted in the respective threads though and I don't see much necessity for having started this one here.

[Mechaman]

To me this crosses the line...not wanting us to go to war with Iran is a legitimate view- wanting us to lose a war is Anti-American

If the U.S. is an agressive part, I can't support the U.S.

I do not support agressors. Period.

[Torie]

Folks have high expectations of the "Shining City on the Hill," and are disappointed when it falls short.

[fezzyfestoon]

People mistake respect for a privilege with restraint in taking advantage of it. We have the right to cut deep and get away with it, less so socially now than we used to. If we have honest feelings that are that strong, isn't it something to be proud of that we can and do call bullsh!t loud and clear on something we truly believe is wrong? A respectful fear and sense of restraint are not feelings I'm comfortable with in regards to my government. They work for us and need to respect us first and foremost. That's the example we're supposed to set as the leaders of the free world. No wonder nobody believes in our Constitution anymore, we don't even think we're allowed to live by it. This is our country and I'm sick of people bowing down to the almighty powers of the Party. This government in power is run by and for special interests. And we're made to feel like we should sit down and shut up. That's not American.

That ended up being a lot more Murrican than I expected haha

[Redalgo]

Personally, I do not recall describing the United States as evil, but I would certainly prefer the U.S. not be engaged in certain foreign policies. I have a very positive opinion of the United States all around but I do not believe anyone or thing deserves unconditional loyalty - even if tradition or state-sanctioned rights and privileges put pressure on me to feel indebted to the homeland. I retain the prerogative to decide if and when to support the state's actions.

When the government pursues policies abroad I strongly oppose, and I voice that opposition and desire rectification of injustices being perpetrated, it does not make me anti-American. It merely makes me anti-<insert specific policy here>. Incidentally, it is neither my fault nor that of other dissenters if the government decides to use the armed forces as a tool for committing arguably irrational and/or immoral deeds. We do not want American troops dead - simply the ruling regime to reconsider its agenda at times and to seek some different objectives around the world.

I also agree with Torie in a sense. I expect and openly demand a lot from my country, in part because I want it to more fully realize its latent potential for greatness and provide an extraordinary role model for all other countries.

[Politico]

Clarence is absolutely right. Every god damn last thing done by the CIA and the military is done for the benefit of America. Mistakes are sometimes made, and sometimes we have weak political leadership in Washington (I support Romney, but Obama and Clinton have been good about being hands-off and letting the professionals run foreign policy. Obama may be the new Carter on the domestic front, but he holds his own on international issues).

Sometimes the results are not what was expected, but that does not mean the intentions are ever evil. The intentions are always with America's best interests in mind.

[Insula Dei]

Clarence is absolutely right. Every god damn last thing done by the CIA and the military is done for the benefit of America. Mistakes are sometimes made, and sometimes we have weak political leadership in Washington (I support Romney, but Obama and Clinton have been good about being hands-off and letting the professionals run foreign policy. Obama may be the new Carter on the domestic front, but he holds his own on international issues).

Sometimes the results are not what was expected, but that does not mean the intentions are ever evil. The intentions are always with America's best interests in mind.

What a consolation that must be to both 16-year old kids in Guantanamo and the good people whose house unfortunately was in the path of a US drone. All of their sufferings are ultimately serving the security of those nice Americans!

[Хahar 🤔]

Even if we accept that the government always acts with America's best interests in mind, that hardly makes those actions right.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

True. Operation Ajax, Operation PBSUCCESS and Chile 1973 all had "US interests" in mind too. For that matter these actions can backfire terribly as Ajax proved.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

True. Operation Ajax, Operation PBSUCCESS and Chile 1973 all had "US interests" in mind too. For that matter these actions can backfire terribly as Ajax proved.

Indeed. Even if we are going to accept "riason d'etat above all" positions, there were many blunders, miscalculations and backfires to make "always a national interest" argument pointless.

[Middle-aged Europe]

To assume that anything that the government does is by definition well-intentioned is a pretty naive view of the world IMO.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

It's like people who are accused of Antisemitism for criticizing Israeli policy...

Blind faith in the inherent goodness on one's country tends to leave you blinkered when they do something wrong. I think some are too quick to attack the US (although, often completely justified), equally, when some attack the US for it's actions, the response from so many Americans is reflexive and they tend to take it very personally, like it implicates them... when it doesn't.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think the originator of this thread (as he has stated before, apparently to no effect) has any problems with people expressing their opinions on a given policy of the United States -it is when they start claiming that they intend to support an enemy of the United States (i.e. Iran) in a given war that it crosses a line.  Those antiwar demonstrators of yore did themselves no favors by flying VietCong flags in their rallies. 

And I have to say I agree with him. 

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

That's fair Frodo.

However, if the US undertakes a disproportionate military step against Iran... a lot of people will be VERY mad.

Personally, my response would be circumstance-based. There are few scenarios in which I wouldn't be alarmed/angered by military action against Iran. Not for the sake of Iran, but for the knock-on effects for the rest of the world.

[dead0man]

I don't think the originator of this thread (as he has stated before, apparently to no effect) has any problems with people expressing their opinions on a given policy of the United States -it is when they start claiming that they intend to support an enemy of the United States (i.e. Iran) in a given war that it crosses a line.  Those antiwar demonstrators of yore did themselves no favors by flying VietCong flags in their rallies. 

And I have to say I agree with him. 

Indeed...at least on that one specific point. 

There is nothing wrong with being critical of the US, it's foreign policies, whatever, but if you are willing to wave the flag of the also easy to criticize government we are at war with (even if we are the "aggressor", which we couldn't be with Iran since they've already committed acts of war against us and our friends) you are a traitorous asshole and you are also hypocrite for not trying to GTFO ASAP.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You see this is my problem, and was my problem with Iraq.

I supported Afghanistan as I saw a clear cause/effect, I didn't support Iraq, not because they weren't up to stuff (although I never bought the WMD argument) ... but I saw the consequences of Iraq as being far too risky, basically region-wide destabilisation. Basically more pain than it was worth.

Iran is up to stuff, no question - but Iran is NOT Iraq... for me it's a case of moral justification not being able to override practical realities. Thankfully, the experience of Iraq has hopefully taught some very valuable lessons.

[Sbane]

I have a question. Is stating that one of the reasons Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons is due to our actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and lack thereof in North Korea, Anti-American? Just trying to gauge what Anti-Americanism means to you. 

BTW, where is this thread where people are hoping Iran wins?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I don't believe what I'm seeing.

Where you been all your lives,

at an orgy?

Listening to Lady GaGa music and

bad-mouthing your country, I'll bet.