Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 27, 2014, 01:33:15 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Former Moderate, Badger)
| | |-+  Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 Print
Author Topic: Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest  (Read 5683 times)
Gravis Marketing
brittain33
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13058


View Profile
« Reply #150 on: April 01, 2012, 10:03:11 am »
Ignore

ABC agents are police officers.
Police officers may enforce liquor laws, and ABC agents may have law enforcement powers.

They probably aren't in uniform.



ABC agents are police officers. Google it.
Logged
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #151 on: April 01, 2012, 11:58:51 am »
Ignore

ABC agents are police officers.
Police officers may enforce liquor laws, and ABC agents may have law enforcement powers.

They probably aren't in uniform.


ABC agents are police officers. Google it.
Law enforcement officers.  Not police officers.

If you were trying to see if a bar was serving persons who were intoxicated or serving underage drinking, you aren't going to be wearing a uniform.
Logged
Ogre Mage
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2068
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.00, S: -4.35

P P

View Profile
« Reply #152 on: April 01, 2012, 05:47:17 pm »
Ignore

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
Logged
incredibly specific types of post-punk music
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 72813
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #153 on: April 01, 2012, 05:51:09 pm »
Ignore

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Well it's tough to identify anyone else who it could be so...
Logged




01/05/2004-01/10/2014
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8681
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #154 on: April 01, 2012, 05:54:36 pm »
Ignore

Just as an FYI, "voice identification" is about the most pseudoscientific discipline imaginable - it's not even admissible in court (which is saying something, because all sorts of pseudoscientific "forensic" methods are).
Logged
BigSkyBob
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2275
View Profile
« Reply #155 on: April 01, 2012, 06:02:35 pm »
Ignore

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Actually, isn't the correct formulation to say that they couldn't make any determination whatsoever as to whether, or not, it was Martin's voice because they simply didn't have a sample?

As to analyzing their "science" two points come quickly to mind. First, they don't say what the expected pattern match is if samples from two different people are compared. If it is 10%, that strongly points to Zimmerman being the speaker. Second, the assumption that someone reporting a suspicious person from the safety of their car, knowing they are armed, constitutes the intense "stress" someone being beaten would exhibit in their voice is a highly dubious assumption, at best.

We know that Zimmerman's neighbor, whom has spoken to Zimmerman on numerous occasions, identified his voice from the 911 tapes.
Logged

The real scandal in Washington is not the bribery, corruption, or sex. It is how poorly we are governed.
Invisible Obama
DrScholl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3900
United States



View Profile
« Reply #156 on: April 01, 2012, 06:55:06 pm »
Ignore

It was hard to believe it was Zimmerman, it sounded like someone younger and the older a man is, the less likely he is to reach certain octaves and decibels. Of course they can't claim it's Martin's voice without a sample, but that doesn't change the fact that their analysis did not match Zimmerman's voice. There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.
Logged

Please seek a 5150 if your candidate loses.
J. J.
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32091
United States


View Profile
« Reply #157 on: April 01, 2012, 08:33:12 pm »
Ignore

There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.

I definitely agree.  There are a whole bunch of questions.
Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19171
United States


View Profile
« Reply #158 on: April 02, 2012, 10:12:53 am »
Ignore

Defenders of Zimmerman are looking more and more foolish every day...
Logged

It's always darkest before the dawn.
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #159 on: April 02, 2012, 11:45:12 am »
Ignore

It was hard to believe it was Zimmerman, it sounded like someone younger and the older a man is, the less likely he is to reach certain octaves and decibels. Of course they can't claim it's Martin's voice without a sample, but that doesn't change the fact that their analysis did not match Zimmerman's voice. There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.
The call has 45 seconds before the gunshot.   So there must have been some (10 seconds) before that for the caller to react, and decide to call 911.

What would cause someone to scream for help?
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18786
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #160 on: April 02, 2012, 12:52:07 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?
Logged

BigSkyBob
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2275
View Profile
« Reply #161 on: April 02, 2012, 01:13:02 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.
Logged

The real scandal in Washington is not the bribery, corruption, or sex. It is how poorly we are governed.
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18786
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #162 on: April 02, 2012, 01:33:13 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?
Logged

jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #163 on: April 02, 2012, 04:04:49 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?
If you were being chased by a guy with a gun, would you run?

In 45 seconds, assuming a 6'3 17 YO can run a 15 second 100 yard dash, he could have reached the place where he was staying AND returned.

I really don't think the 5'9 guy was chasing after 6'3 guy for 45 seconds until he finally caught up with and fired at short range.
Logged
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #164 on: April 02, 2012, 04:07:53 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?
Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18786
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #165 on: April 02, 2012, 10:00:33 pm »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?
Logged

jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #166 on: April 03, 2012, 02:13:08 am »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?
Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?
He did not get out of his truck when the police told him not to pursue.

He got out of his truck when Martin began running.  If Martin ran down the street, it is more likely that Zimmerman would have simply driven around the corner.  So it is more likely that Martin ran along the path behind the townhouses, or perhaps even over on the next street.  Zimmerman reacted and got out of his truck.  It was then that the dispatcher told him not to follow.  Zimmerman acknowledged, and said that "He ran", which implies that he was no longer in sight.

Logged
BigSkyBob
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2275
View Profile
« Reply #167 on: April 03, 2012, 10:44:31 am »
Ignore

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?
Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?
He did not get out of his truck when the police told him not to pursue.

He got out of his truck when Martin began running.  If Martin ran down the street, it is more likely that Zimmerman would have simply driven around the corner.  So it is more likely that Martin ran along the path behind the townhouses, or perhaps even over on the next street.  Zimmerman reacted and got out of his truck.  It was then that the dispatcher told him not to follow.  Zimmerman acknowledged, and said that "He ran", which implies that he was no longer in sight.



And, if Zimmerman had ran after him, you would have heard his heavy breathing on the call.
Logged

The real scandal in Washington is not the bribery, corruption, or sex. It is how poorly we are governed.
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18786
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #168 on: April 03, 2012, 11:54:10 am »
Ignore

And, if Zimmerman had ran after him, you would have heard his heavy breathing on the call.

Pursuit does not necessarily have to involved running. He could have just continued looking around the area. Either that or he stuck around the area to wait for the police without heading back to his vehicle... at night, in the rain. Which considering he believed that there was a suspicious and potentially dangerous person around would be just about as stupid as pursuing. And if Martin ran and Zimmerman did not continue to pursue, what opportunity would Martin have to initiate the altercation? Are you saying that after running that he turned around and decided to pick a fight then? Seems like contradictory behavior to me.
Logged

jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2012, 05:27:24 pm »
Ignore

Quote from: IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
Pursuit does not necessarily have to involved running. He could have just continued looking around the area. Either that or he stuck around the area to wait for the police without heading back to his vehicle... at night, in the rain. Which considering he believed that there was a suspicious and potentially dangerous person around would be just about as stupid as pursuing. And if Martin ran and Zimmerman did not continue to pursue, what opportunity would Martin have to initiate the altercation? Are you saying that after running that he turned around and decided to pick a fight then? Seems like contradictory behavior to me.
There are about 4-1/2 minutes from the time Zimmerman reported that Martin had run toward the back entrance until the fighting apparently began.

At a fast walk (15 minutes/mile) he could have got home (to where he was staying), returned, gone home, and come back a second time.

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18786
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #170 on: April 03, 2012, 08:31:43 pm »
Ignore

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.

1. Because as neighborhood watch captain you would think he'd know the streets of his own neighborhood.
2. Because he thinks there's a suspicious, potentially dangerous person around. Why not go to the safety of his vehicle to get some shelter from the rain?
Logged

jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #171 on: April 04, 2012, 04:56:25 am »
Ignore

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.
1. Because as neighborhood watch captain you would think he'd know the streets of his own neighborhood.
2. Because he thinks there's a suspicious, potentially dangerous person around. Why not go to the safety of his vehicle to get some shelter from the rain?
But not necessarily the address, especially if he wasn't in his truck and the truck was not in front of a residence.  It is almost continuous driveway in front of any building, so you would be blocking a driveway.  He started to tell the dispatcher that the officer would see his truck.  The dispatcher asked the address, and then started questioning whether he lived in the area, as if to possibly suggest that the police officer meet him at his house.

The dispatcher then asked him if he wanted to meet at the mailboxes, which is not where he was, nor where his truck was.  He realized that, and then decided to have the police officer come to him.   The dispatcher is probably trained to get something that can be keyed into their mapping system so it will show up on the police officer's screen.

How hard was the rain?  You had people walking their dogs, so it may have let up a bit.
Logged
morgieb
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5624
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #172 on: April 04, 2012, 08:10:13 am »
Ignore

I can't believe that some ****wits on here can justify Zimmerman's decision to murder!

He used a gun ffs! I could maybe understand it if he used some other weapon which killed him, but a gun is too far! Surely he knew that a gun can easily kill! It wasn't like the kid was that dangerous anyway. The people that say they are either don't know how kids communicate today, or are on the same level as a HP as Mr Zimmerman.

I don't know how American law works, but in Australia, while self-defence can obviously play a factor, it's not a full defence to murder, and you have to use reasonable force. So I reckon he could be busted with murder. And he deserves it, too.
Logged
Grumps
GM3PRP
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34670
India
View Profile
« Reply #173 on: April 04, 2012, 08:14:07 am »
Ignore

The whole story is so uninteresting to me I can't read any of it.......I think it was memphis who noted that there's no hubub elsewhere when black kids get killed daily in the U.S.

I'm sorry for the family.....and every other family who doesn't merit national attention.
Logged

updaters remind me of scumbags.


Tomorrow, I will probably have Chick-fil-a for lunch and try to eat light when I go to the McDonald's on the turnpike for dinner.
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5884
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #174 on: April 04, 2012, 11:08:43 am »
Ignore

He used a gun ffs! I could maybe understand it if he used some other weapon which killed him, but a gun is too far! Surely he knew that a gun can easily kill! It wasn't like the kid was that dangerous anyway. The people that say they are either don't know how kids communicate today, or are on the same level as a HP as Mr Zimmerman.
What do you mean "how kids communicate today"?

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines