Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest

[J. J.]

How is someone holding a smoking gun over a dead kid not proof of guilt?

Not it the guy with the gun was on the ground being beaten at the time.

We do not know the circumstances, and I think we need to reserve judgment until we do.

[J. J.]

I love how everyone is treating this as an abstract case.

And I love who nobody is looking at all the evidence.

[J. J.]

I love how everyone is treating this as an abstract case.

And I love who nobody is looking at all the evidence.

How come you have access to all the evidence in Philly?

I never said I had.  The point is that we don't have all the evidence and we are not even looking at the evidence we do have.

We do know a few things.

A.  Zimmerman thought Martin looked suspicious.  He followed him in his car, called 911, and was told to stop following Martin.

So, the first question is, did Zimmerman stop following Martin?

B.  Zimmerman left his car. 

Did he leave his car in order to follow Martin?  Did he leave his car to check something else out?

C.  Zimmerman had some injuries to the back of his head and his face.

How did Zimmerman get these injuries?  Were they self inflicted?  Was he attacked?  Did he continue following Martin and Martin inflict these injuries?

D.  Zimmerman shot Martin. 

Did he shoot Martin without provocation?  Was Martin shot while Martin was inflicting these injuries?

The answers to these questions will make a difference on if Zimmerman is guilty of murder, manslaughter, or acted in self defense.

[J. J.]

Shoot a lot of people, do you krazen?

I can't answer for krazen, but I've known enough people that were shot, and done enough target shooting myself to know that he is correct.

How about you, Sib?

[J. J.]

Martin was 6' 3"...and 140 lbs.  That's incredibly scrawny for that height (I weigh 135 and I'm a full 8 inches shorter than Martin, and I'm pretty scrawny).  Zimmerman, despite being shorter, weighs close to 100 lbs more than Martin.  And you expect me to believe that Martin could beat Zimmerman up and knock him to the ground easily?  With that kind of weight disparity and what it implies about Martin's physique?

Do I think a young 140 lbs. man could jump a man 100 lbs. heavier from behind, at night?  Sure.

[J. J.]

Apparently there have been conflicting reports of what Zimmerman's account is. I'm not sure if this is because Zimmerman himself was inconsistent or if the facts that were leaked to the media simply have been misleading. But the latest I have read is not that Zimmermain claims he was jumped from behind... he claims that Martin walked up to him from behind and asked him if he had a problem with him, or something to that effect. Martin's girlfriend's story would fit into this more latter account. If they exchanged words, then no one was jumped from behind.

Jumped was my characterization, but an attack that Zimmerman would be expecting, from behind, could be the case as well.  I am somewhat troubled by the wound on the back of Zimmerman's head.

[J. J.]

Wouldn't it fit with the broken nose if Martin punched him in the face, knocking him over so his head hit the pavement?  Followed by Zimmerman firing?  

Suppose Zimmerman broke it when he hit the ground, hypothetically?  There are a lot of possibilities.

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Well, no, because he had a belief that his life was endangered, under your scenario.  Zimmerman's action might be provocative, but they didn't justify Martin turning, approaching and punching him.

[J. J.]

I don't consider anything the father says to be anything more than entertainment value, because the father wasn't there. That claim's only significant if it is relaying a claim made by Zimmerman himself. But even then, there's no evidence whatsoever to support it.

I think the police report noted the injury on the back of the head and the bloody nose.  I would not call that conclusive.

[J. J.]

There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.

I definitely agree.  There are a whole bunch of questions.

[J. J.]

The whole story is so uninteresting to me I can't read any of it.......I think it was memphis who noted that there's no hubub elsewhere when black kids get killed daily in the U.S.

I'm sorry for the family.....and every other family who doesn't merit national attention.

Had the shooter been arrested in a timely fashion, this story would not have mushroomed to the degree that it has.  There are too many holes in Zimmerman's story and the actions of the Sanford Police look incompetent at best or a coverup at worst.  It was really the reaction of the police which pushed this story into national headlines rather than the incident itself.

I've just heard Zimmerman's story, by proxy.  If true, it is self defense.  Now, is it true or is it an attempt to cover up murder?  The forensic evidence should tell, especially the bullet entry.