Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest

[John Dibble]

How is the "attacker" defined here? We have an armed person who, it seems, got out of a car (or was he just walking by?) to attack another (unarmed) person - who, at that point, might have been (unsuccessfully) acting in self-defense. Is it being contested that Zimmerman was the first one to approach the kid, and not the other way around? Are there any witnesses?

Here is what we know about what happened for sure:

1. The watch captain, who is the party that is armed, calls the police about someone he thinks is suspicious and on foot.
2. The police tell him that they'll send someone to look into it, and to not follow the suspicious person.
3. The watch captain starts following him in his car anyways.
4. At some point the watch captain gets out of his car.
5. An altercation of some kind occurs at some point, and someone is screaming for help. The watch captain shoots his gun.

The result is an unarmed black teenager dead, and an armed white man who couldn't follow police instructions walking free - even if Zimmerman was the one who was attacked this definitely does not help racial tensions.

[John Dibble]

Ideally, he'd be arrested and tried for murder, but I'm not sure they'll have the evidence they need to get a conviction.  Now, if they can at least get him on a charge for not listening to the 911 dispatcher, that'd at least be a small consolation.  Sadly, I'm not sure this will have a just ending.

They should try for manslaughter instead of murder - being that you can't say his actions were premeditated it would probably be easier to get a jury to convict on a lesser charge.

[John Dibble]

So apparently a new video is out showing Zimmerman being led in handcuffs out of the police cruiser into the station where he has no bruises or blood anywhere on him that can be seen. No bandages, his shirt is clean and dry, no sign of grass. Yes, the police report says the fire department treated him at the scene, but for a guy who's defenders have been portraying him getting decked onto the ground, and "hammered" for at least a minute possibly much longer while crying for help, he sure doesn't look the least bit scratched.

Watch in the middle of the video when the one cop is putting his jacket in the trunk of the car.  The other cop comes around and is checking the back of his head.

Here's the video itself, for the lazy who don't want to search for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N5OiLQjUcOU#!

[John Dibble]

His father wasn't there and was not a witness in any way. He's also got an obvious bias. Why should anyone care what he has to say on the matter?

[John Dibble]

His father wasn't there and was not a witness in any way. He's also got an obvious bias. Why should anyone care what he has to say on the matter?

Well, that's one perspective. Other people prefer to consider all the evidence, which muddies the waters and shows that we can't rush to judgment.

No, it's brute fact. His father wasn't a witness. What part of that do you not understand? His father's statements aren't evidence. He would not be allowed to take the stand and present these in a court of law because at best his statements are hearsay.

[John Dibble]

His father wasn't there and was not a witness in any way. He's also got an obvious bias. Why should anyone care what he has to say on the matter?

Well, that's one perspective. Other people prefer to consider all the evidence, which muddies the waters and shows that we can't rush to judgment.

No, it's brute fact. His father wasn't a witness. What part of that do you not understand? His father's statements aren't evidence. He would not be allowed to take the stand and present these in a court of law because at best his statements are hearsay.

Zimmerman's father is innocent until proven guilty - do not rush to judgment. We have to consider all the evidence.

jimrtex, J.J., BigSkyBob, help me out here. He doesn't get it.

Well played, sir.

[John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

[John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

[John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?

[John Dibble]

And, if Zimmerman had ran after him, you would have heard his heavy breathing on the call.

Pursuit does not necessarily have to involved running. He could have just continued looking around the area. Either that or he stuck around the area to wait for the police without heading back to his vehicle... at night, in the rain. Which considering he believed that there was a suspicious and potentially dangerous person around would be just about as stupid as pursuing. And if Martin ran and Zimmerman did not continue to pursue, what opportunity would Martin have to initiate the altercation? Are you saying that after running that he turned around and decided to pick a fight then? Seems like contradictory behavior to me.

[John Dibble]

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.

1. Because as neighborhood watch captain you would think he'd know the streets of his own neighborhood.
2. Because he thinks there's a suspicious, potentially dangerous person around. Why not go to the safety of his vehicle to get some shelter from the rain?