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Author Topic: For our religiously conservative brethren....  (Read 4925 times)
Frodo
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« on: March 19, 2012, 07:09:15 pm »
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Let's assume that homosexuality is -at least in part- genetically based.  Which it probably is -we're merely awaiting conclusive scientific evidence to prove it.

If you find that your future son and/or daughter has the 'gay gene', what would you do?  

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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 07:58:10 pm »
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Love them no differently than any other child of mine. I don't think you'll get many answers other than that one. I doubt most religious conservatives of all people are that high on genetic engineering.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:59:54 pm by realisticidealist »Logged

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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 08:16:49 pm »
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Tolerate and get pissed if he/she ever brings their bf/gf around. But still tolerate it. He/she is my son/daughter and we're all human. If they'd made it to the age of eighteen, they'd already know my views on the subject and thus there wouldn't be any point to me voicing my opposition unless this son/daughter directly came to me and my hypothetical wife talking about getting married or whatever. In the final analysis, God is the final judge and that's that.
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 07:47:01 am »
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There is no EULA when your wife gives a birth, but you should understand that you are accepting product "as is". So I will accept it.                 
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 09:17:45 am »
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Let's assume that homosexuality is -at least in part- genetically based.  Which it probably is -we're merely awaiting conclusive scientific evidence to prove it.

If you find that your future son and/or daughter has the 'gay gene', what would you do? 



Let me just point out that while I am not conservative (although I am religious) I think there is a lot of stereotyping going on in this question. There is a tendency to assume that people in "middle America" are a bunch of uneducated thugs who would beat their kids if they turned out to be gay (or at least disgrace them). Truth is, America has never been a "shame society" and probably never will be. Most Americans, regardless of their political or religious leanings, would love their kids regardless of sexual orientation, although they might be disheartened if they turned out to be lesbian/gay/bi etc.
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 10:58:52 am »
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Pose some questions about your own sexuality maybe?
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 12:31:15 pm »
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Let's assume that homosexuality is -at least in part- genetically based.  Which it probably is -we're merely awaiting conclusive scientific evidence to prove it.

If you find that your future son and/or daughter has the 'gay gene', what would you do? 



There will never, ever be a single gene which would indicate with 100% certainty that someone would be gay.  According to 23andMe, I have 23 genetic variants (NOTE: "genetic variants", not "genes"; we all have the gay genes, in all likelihood, we just don't all have the gay variants of those genes) which put me at a higher risk for a variety of diseases that I don't have; just because I have the variant doesn't mean I have the disorder.  The current response, regardless of religious orientation, is here to say that having the gene doesn't actually tell you much at all about what your child will be like besides making it a higher probability event.  Even for "slam dunks" like Down Syndrome, sickle-cell, and so on and so forth are never as slam dunky as they seem, because the genome is a weird and wonderfully complex thing (though that's not to say they're not so close to 100% that they essentially can be treated as such).
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 07:05:42 pm »
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I'd love my child all the same. Don't care if they're gay, straight, bisexual, etc.

But I would be concerned if my child was black and my wife was white.
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 11:38:19 pm »
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Tolerate and get pissed if he/she ever brings their bf/gf around. But still tolerate it. He/she is my son/daughter and we're all human. If they'd made it to the age of eighteen, they'd already know my views on the subject and thus there wouldn't be any point to me voicing my opposition unless this son/daughter directly came to me and my hypothetical wife talking about getting married or whatever. In the final analysis, God is the final judge and that's that.

It's clearly coming from someone without children.

As someone with gay friends who had religious/conservative parents... it's a radically different concept to deal with once it's your child, your flesh and blood.
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 10:43:43 am »
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Let's assume that homosexuality is -at least in part- genetically based.  Which it probably is -we're merely awaiting conclusive scientific evidence to prove it.

If you find that your future son and/or daughter has the 'gay gene', what would you do?  

There probably isn't a single "gay gene," most evidence seems to point to hormonal influence in the womb or environmental factors. But obviously I wouldn't have a problem.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2012, 10:53:40 am »
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Tolerate and get pissed if he/she ever brings their bf/gf around. But still tolerate it. He/she is my son/daughter and we're all human. If they'd made it to the age of eighteen, they'd already know my views on the subject and thus there wouldn't be any point to me voicing my opposition unless this son/daughter directly came to me and my hypothetical wife talking about getting married or whatever. In the final analysis, God is the final judge and that's that.
How about loving your child unconditionally and openly embracing their lifestyle? Attitudes like yours honestly make me sick to my stomach. And I'm saying this as someone who is an LGBTQ person with an insanely conservative fundamentalist Christian mother.
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lawlz
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 11:34:30 am »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2012, 12:07:51 pm »
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I'm religious, but not conservative.  Obviously I would love them just the same and not treat them any differently; I would not feel bitterness towards it, either.  Heck, I've been reading some things lately that suggest that the anti-gay rhetoric in the Bible is just mistranslated scripture.
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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2012, 12:13:57 pm »
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I'm religious, but not conservative.  Obviously I would love them just the same and not treat them any differently; I would not feel bitterness towards it, either.  Heck, I've been reading some things lately that suggest that the anti-gay rhetoric in the Bible is just mistranslated scripture.

Just popping in to say that that does seem to be the case for some of it--there's actually a case to be made for the Pauline Epistles because of certain features of Greek rhetoric--but not all. People had to use and control sexuality in very specific ways back then, it was and often still is religiously sanctioned, and in critiquing certain passages or certain ways of trying to apply said passages we need to remember that each part of the Bible has its own very distinct history.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2012, 12:19:48 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.
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lawlz
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 12:27:13 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does. It is in many cases the exact opposite: still honestly hoping the best for someone when you are distinctly not in agreement. Loving one's enemies does not mean they are no longer enemies.

In the case of a child, I would have made a promise before God to raise that child in the practice of faith upon baptism and engaging in a homosexual act or entering into a homosexual relationship is a grave sin thus contrary to God's teachings. Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner. I would teach my child to remain celibate with every bit of effort I can muster. It would likely be difficult to succeed but what choice would I have? Loving a child would include wishing them eternal life in heaven not just temporal happiness.
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« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 12:41:19 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does. It is in many cases the exact opposite: still honestly hoping the best for someone when you are distinctly not in agreement. Loving one's enemies does not mean they are no longer enemies.

In the case of a child, I would have made a promise before God to raise that child in the practice of faith upon baptism and engaging in a homosexual act or entering into a homosexual relationship is a grave sin thus contrary to God's teachings. Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner. I would teach my child to remain celibate with every bit of effort I can muster. It would likely be difficult to succeed but what choice would I have? Loving a child would include wishing them eternal life in heaven not just temporal happiness.

I-

I just-

Don't have kids.
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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2012, 12:45:31 pm »
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I'm religious, but not conservative.  Obviously I would love them just the same and not treat them any differently; I would not feel bitterness towards it, either.  Heck, I've been reading some things lately that suggest that the anti-gay rhetoric in the Bible is just mistranslated scripture.

I've read a couple books on that myself, the better one being by a Catholic clergyman.

Not sure how much I buy into that. Bigotry is far more prominent than tolerance in the Abrahamic religions worldwide. It is hard to believe that it is not by design.
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2012, 03:32:11 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does. It is in many cases the exact opposite: still honestly hoping the best for someone when you are distinctly not in agreement. Loving one's enemies does not mean they are no longer enemies.

In the case of a child, I would have made a promise before God to raise that child in the practice of faith upon baptism and engaging in a homosexual act or entering into a homosexual relationship is a grave sin thus contrary to God's teachings. Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner. I would teach my child to remain celibate with every bit of effort I can muster. It would likely be difficult to succeed but what choice would I have? Loving a child would include wishing them eternal life in heaven not just temporal happiness.

Understandably, I hope you never become a father; you don't seem to have what it takes to be one, or do you display anything remotely attractive to most intelligent women. The fact you want your child to live a miserable life because you chose to and place restrictions on him that are psychologically destructive provides an interesting insight into your own psyche.
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 05:33:42 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.
I share Cathcons views. If I had a straight child, I'd love him/her, but I would not have to like his wife or her husband. The same goes for a gay child. Its not place to deny my hypothetical gay child their right to marry (thats why I support same sex marriage at a state level) however.

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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 05:39:25 pm »
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One thing I find somewhat frustrating about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it does not fall into some of the same stupid 'natural law' traps as Catholic theology, yet retains many of the same conclusions on other, often oddly fideistic, bases; whereas there are groups like the Old Catholics and some of the Malabar churches that come to a different stance on the basis of much the same general theological practice as Rome. This to me indicates that these debates are cultural because there doesn't seem to be a whole hell of a lot of correlation between general attitude towards or way of doing theology and specific beliefs developed on a lot of these subjects.

(It is worth noting that dissent appears to exist in Orthodoxy, at somewhat higher levels than in Catholicism and carrying with it rather less danger of being sh**tcanned and reassigned to Partenia, but there's still not all that much of it.)

The method that mainline Protestants tend to practice in the tradition of Richard Hooker and John Wesley is that we as Christians believe most of what we believe because tradition tells us that scripture says to believe it. If experience or reason contradict what tradition tells us scripture says, then it's time to modify or reject parts of that tradition and approach scripture independently again, taking the experience and reason into account, to start a new tradition. I'm sure we can all think of examples where this process failed and the traditional interpretation was reaffirmed, and I'm sure we can also all think of examples where it succeeded and the received interpretation changed; or where it only dubiously failed or succeeded and resulted in ideological division within the Body of the Church.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 07:54:33 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does. It is in many cases the exact opposite: still honestly hoping the best for someone when you are distinctly not in agreement. Loving one's enemies does not mean they are no longer enemies.

In the case of a child, I would have made a promise before God to raise that child in the practice of faith upon baptism and engaging in a homosexual act or entering into a homosexual relationship is a grave sin thus contrary to God's teachings. Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner. I would teach my child to remain celibate with every bit of effort I can muster. It would likely be difficult to succeed but what choice would I have? Loving a child would include wishing them eternal life in heaven not just temporal happiness.

Understandably, I hope you never become a father; you don't seem to have what it takes to be one, or do you display anything remotely attractive to most intelligent women. The fact you want your child to live a miserable life because you chose to and place restrictions on him that are psychologically destructive provides an interesting insight into your own psyche.

That's a tad cruel, don't you think?
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
realisticidealist
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« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 09:09:06 pm »
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Why do you assume I wouldn't love my child?
I'm not at all accusing you of not loving your hypothetical child. I'm simply pointing out that by being so intolerant of their lifestyle (getting pissed when they bring their partner around) you're making life a lot, lot harder for them than it needs to be.

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does. It is in many cases the exact opposite: still honestly hoping the best for someone when you are distinctly not in agreement. Loving one's enemies does not mean they are no longer enemies.

In the case of a child, I would have made a promise before God to raise that child in the practice of faith upon baptism and engaging in a homosexual act or entering into a homosexual relationship is a grave sin thus contrary to God's teachings. Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner. I would teach my child to remain celibate with every bit of effort I can muster. It would likely be difficult to succeed but what choice would I have? Loving a child would include wishing them eternal life in heaven not just temporal happiness.

Understandably, I hope you never become a father; you don't seem to have what it takes to be one, or do you display anything remotely attractive to most intelligent women.

I take it you don't believe in the existence of practicing Catholic women? Or are they not intelligent to you? TJ is one of the best people on this site, and he surely could make a great parent if he so desired.
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« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 09:12:40 pm »
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I take it you don't believe in the existence of practicing Catholic women?

I understand that not only does he believe in their existence but that he might even know one or two.
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« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 09:17:23 pm »
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I take it you don't believe in the existence of practicing Catholic women?

I understand that not only does he believe in their existence but that he might even know one or two.

That was a rhetorical question...but thanks(?). My point is that there are plenty of women who think that a man believing exactly what TJ said would be more appealing than someone like afleitch.
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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
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