Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 25, 2016, 02:09:12 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Be sure to enable your "Ultimate Profile" for even more goodies on your profile page!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderators: Beet, Apocrypha)
| | |-+  For our religiously conservative brethren....
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: For our religiously conservative brethren....  (Read 6724 times)
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 60573
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 09:33:14 pm »
Ignore

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

This is, of course, absolutely and utterly true.

It is also a statement that does not entirely gel with the rest of what you seem to be advocating in this thread. Because, you see, whatever this is...

Quote
Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...it is not 'love'.

Perhaps... perhaps... it could be argued that dressing it up as such is... perhaps ever so slightly... sick? I don't know, perhaps that word is a bit emotive and not conductive to productive discourse (or whatever). It would also miss the point. Inappropriate, maybe, is more fitting. So let's run with it, shall we? Inappropriate.

Fundamentally, you can feel what you want to feel and think what you want to think. But it's wrong (because it's pompous and pomposity is wrong) to dress up every single thought and feeling as if it were the product of noble intention and Christian compassion.
Logged



"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
Justice TJ
TJ in Cleve
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6595
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: 6.96

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 09:37:17 pm »
Ignore

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

This is, of course, absolutely and utterly true.

It is also a statement that does not entirely gel with the rest of what you seem to be advocating in this thread. Because, you see, whatever this is...

Quote
Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...it is not 'love'.

Perhaps... perhaps... it could be argued that dressing it up as such is... perhaps ever so slightly... sick? I don't know, perhaps that word is a bit emotive and not conductive to productive discourse (or whatever). It would also miss the point. Inappropriate, maybe, is more fitting. So let's run with it, shall we? Inappropriate.

Fundamentally, you can feel what you want to feel and think what you want to think. But it's wrong (because it's pompous and pomposity is wrong) to dress up every single thought and feeling as if it were the product of noble intention and Christian compassion.

So what would be the noble and compassionate method of raising a child with homosexual inclinations in the Church? If you let the child act upon those inclinations you would be allowing them to go astray, which as a parent I would have promised not to do. What else should one do in that situation?
Logged

Sometimes the bad guys win. Nobody 2016!
Cathcon
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17907
United States


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 10:18:26 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.
Logged

Hate Thy Neighbor as Thyself: A Catholic's Guide to Misanthropy
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9697
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.39, S: 4.17

View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 10:20:24 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.
Logged
Cathcon
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17907
United States


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 10:29:05 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.
Logged

Hate Thy Neighbor as Thyself: A Catholic's Guide to Misanthropy
Phyllis Dare, Secret Agent
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17136


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 10:33:38 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's partially the nature of the way the concept of 'reality' is constructed, yes, and it's a huge part of why I'm not terribly fond of modernity.

That these particular beliefs are discouraged here ought not, however, be surprising.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 12:22:18 am by Nathan »Logged



A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 60573
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2012, 12:00:20 pm »
Ignore

Well I wouldn't be so slow if you would stop sneering and get to the point.

I got to the point in my initial post. But I'm happy to repeat it.

Essentially, I would argue that this...

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

...does not fit altogether well with this...

Quote
Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...and that dressing up the latter as any kind of 'love' makes a mockery of the word. I don't especially care for your type of canting hypocrisy. Frankly, it makes me sick.

All clear now?
Logged



"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 60573
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2012, 12:11:53 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

Perhaps, but not by me.
Logged



"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 60573
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2012, 08:39:36 pm »
Ignore

The sound of silence early in the morning.
Logged



"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
Alcon
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30690
United States



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2012, 03:07:16 am »
Ignore

I don't want to be the kind of dick that posts such vague, judgmental crap as this, but:  Nearly all posts on the last few pages are extremely disappointing and beneath the people who are posting them.  There's just so much reductionism and equivocation it's ridiculous.  I think it would be better if we agreed to burn this thread and pretend it never happened.
Logged

n/c
AndrewTX
AndrewCT
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7136


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2012, 12:27:13 pm »
Ignore

Have no fear, for I can save this thread!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPcBI4CJc8
Logged

My parents are pretty good about smelling a rat. 
Let me put this as clear as I can (saying this to myself, as well, so I can see it): I WILL get a job with CADD and I WILL keep the job.
nclib
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9230
United States


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2012, 01:05:01 pm »
Ignore

The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.

Reality, where beliefs not derived through religion or conservatism are discouraged.
Logged



"George Bush supports abstinence. Lucky Laura."
- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58620
India


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 01:25:45 pm »
Ignore

I don't want to be the kind of dick that posts such vague, judgmental crap as this, but:  Nearly all posts on the last few pages are extremely disappointing and beneath the people who are posting them.  There's just so much reductionism and equivocation it's ridiculous.  I think it would be better if we agreed to burn this thread and pretend it never happened.
Burn after reading.
Not before.
Logged

If I'm shown as having been active here recently it's either because I've been using the gallery, because I've been using the search engine looking up something from way back, or because I've been reading the most excellent UK by-elections thread again.
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7100
Canada


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 0.00


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2012, 02:37:49 pm »
Ignore

I'm a religious person, but not terribly devoted to doctrine.

But something I tend to pick up on in discussions about religion is the tone taken by many athiests. Religious people are painted as being in some perpetual crusade against acceptance. That's a huge micharacterization, even going by what Senator TJ said.

Not all of us are Mr. Bachmanns. Lots of us just believe what we believe and want to live in peace. The thing about outspoken athiests is their arguments are often more pointed and personal. Religious people are always the ones on the defense, while the athiests are on the attack. I don't like that.
Logged

oreomilkshake
Ghost_white
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3963


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: 0.87

View Profile
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2012, 02:50:44 pm »
Ignore

I'm a religious person, but not terribly devoted to doctrine.

But something I tend to pick up on in discussions about religion is the tone taken by many athiests. Religious people are painted as being in some perpetual crusade against acceptance. That's a huge micharacterization, even going by what Senator TJ said.

Not all of us are Mr. Bachmanns. Lots of us just believe what we believe and want to live in peace. The thing about outspoken athiests is their arguments are often more pointed and personal. Religious people are always the ones on the defense, while the athiests are on the attack. I don't like that.

They wouldn't be if they weren't constantly bombarded with billboards and told they're going to hell or evil people or whatever other nonsense. I'm probably the most far right person on this forum and I don't really have much sympathy for fundamentalists as far as the "culture wars" go.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7100
Canada


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 0.00


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2012, 03:05:06 pm »
Ignore

Fair enough. We don't have signs like that in Canada. They wouldn't go down well.

Though I have to smile when I see them on the way to Myrtle Beach every year. I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian. I guess I idealize it because I'm not a local.
Logged

Jante's Law Revivalist
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 40814
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2012, 04:06:11 pm »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Logged


"The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald [Drumpf] is defeated and defeated badly."

Bernie Sanders, 06/14/2016
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7100
Canada


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 0.00


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2012, 05:21:50 pm »
Ignore

Have you ever been to a Mississauga high school where half the students are Muslims and half the whites are athiests?

Urban Canada is a totally different ball game, especially in youth crowds. My best friend was reprimanded for handing out Christmas cards at school in '07.
Logged

shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15426
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 2.06, S: -4.52

View Profile WWW
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2012, 05:36:35 pm »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh
Logged
oreomilkshake
Ghost_white
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3963


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: 0.87

View Profile
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2012, 07:16:36 pm »
Ignore

Have you ever been to a Mississauga high school where half the students are Muslims and half the whites are athiests?

Urban Canada is a totally different ball game, especially in youth crowds. My best friend was reprimanded for handing out Christmas cards at school in '07.

In my current state there's a teenage girl still getting death threats for asking her high school to remove a prayer mural that technically was illegal. That's how crazy a lot of americans take their religion. Mind you again, again I'm very right wing and could support your "Christian Heritage" party even from the looks of it. But it's a different ballgame over here.
Logged
Jante's Law Revivalist
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 40814
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2012, 07:10:27 am »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Logged


"The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald [Drumpf] is defeated and defeated badly."

Bernie Sanders, 06/14/2016
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15426
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 2.06, S: -4.52

View Profile WWW
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2012, 08:30:35 am »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?
Logged
Jante's Law Revivalist
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 40814
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2012, 08:42:30 am »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?

OK dude, give me just one exaple of when a Christian could be afraid to be Christian in the western world since the second century.
Logged


"The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald [Drumpf] is defeated and defeated badly."

Bernie Sanders, 06/14/2016
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15426
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 2.06, S: -4.52

View Profile WWW
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2012, 02:27:46 pm »
Ignore

I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?

OK dude, give me just one exaple of when a Christian could be afraid to be Christian in the western world since the second century.
Persecution against Christians took place in the Roman Empire at various times in the 1st-4th century, and in parts of Europe as late as the 10th century. And in the modern age, you have had the persecution of various Christian expressions, sects and religious orders by both 'Christian' and revolutionary/totalitarian regimes.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7100
Canada


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 0.00


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2012, 04:10:42 pm »
Ignore

I also gave you an example that you didn't respond to.

Just because they aren't officially prosecuted doesn't mean the religion hasn't been socially discouraged. Being afraid to be Christian doesn't necessary involve fearing you will die because of your beliefs.
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines