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Author Topic: For our religiously conservative brethren....  (Read 6416 times)
Sibboleth
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 09:33:14 pm »
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Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

This is, of course, absolutely and utterly true.

It is also a statement that does not entirely gel with the rest of what you seem to be advocating in this thread. Because, you see, whatever this is...

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Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...it is not 'love'.

Perhaps... perhaps... it could be argued that dressing it up as such is... perhaps ever so slightly... sick? I don't know, perhaps that word is a bit emotive and not conductive to productive discourse (or whatever). It would also miss the point. Inappropriate, maybe, is more fitting. So let's run with it, shall we? Inappropriate.

Fundamentally, you can feel what you want to feel and think what you want to think. But it's wrong (because it's pompous and pomposity is wrong) to dress up every single thought and feeling as if it were the product of noble intention and Christian compassion.
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"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 09:37:17 pm »
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Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

This is, of course, absolutely and utterly true.

It is also a statement that does not entirely gel with the rest of what you seem to be advocating in this thread. Because, you see, whatever this is...

Quote
Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...it is not 'love'.

Perhaps... perhaps... it could be argued that dressing it up as such is... perhaps ever so slightly... sick? I don't know, perhaps that word is a bit emotive and not conductive to productive discourse (or whatever). It would also miss the point. Inappropriate, maybe, is more fitting. So let's run with it, shall we? Inappropriate.

Fundamentally, you can feel what you want to feel and think what you want to think. But it's wrong (because it's pompous and pomposity is wrong) to dress up every single thought and feeling as if it were the product of noble intention and Christian compassion.

So what would be the noble and compassionate method of raising a child with homosexual inclinations in the Church? If you let the child act upon those inclinations you would be allowing them to go astray, which as a parent I would have promised not to do. What else should one do in that situation?
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Cathcon
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 10:18:26 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.
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Obviously I didn't expect this forum to understand anything about feminist theory.
realisticidealist
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 10:20:24 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 10:29:05 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.
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Obviously I didn't expect this forum to understand anything about feminist theory.
Poo-tee-weet?
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 10:33:38 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's partially the nature of the way the concept of 'reality' is constructed, yes, and it's a huge part of why I'm not terribly fond of modernity.

That these particular beliefs are discouraged here ought not, however, be surprising.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2012, 12:00:20 pm »
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Well I wouldn't be so slow if you would stop sneering and get to the point.

I got to the point in my initial post. But I'm happy to repeat it.

Essentially, I would argue that this...

Love does not mean always agreeing with everything someone does

...does not fit altogether well with this...

Quote
Their partner would not be permitted to enter my house as a partner and my child would not be permitted to see his/her partner.

...and that dressing up the latter as any kind of 'love' makes a mockery of the word. I don't especially care for your type of canting hypocrisy. Frankly, it makes me sick.

All clear now?
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"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

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Sibboleth
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2012, 12:11:53 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

Perhaps, but not by me.
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"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
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« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2012, 08:39:36 pm »
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The sound of silence early in the morning.
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"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
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« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2012, 03:07:16 am »
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I don't want to be the kind of dick that posts such vague, judgmental crap as this, but:  Nearly all posts on the last few pages are extremely disappointing and beneath the people who are posting them.  There's just so much reductionism and equivocation it's ridiculous.  I think it would be better if we agreed to burn this thread and pretend it never happened.
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n/c
AndrewTXmas
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« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2012, 12:27:13 pm »
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Have no fear, for I can save this thread!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPcBI4CJc8
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2012, 01:05:01 pm »
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The atlas forum, where beliefs are discouraged.

That's most of the internet, actually.

Reality, where beliefs are discouraged.

Reality, where beliefs not derived through religion or conservatism are discouraged.
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 01:25:45 pm »
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I don't want to be the kind of dick that posts such vague, judgmental crap as this, but:  Nearly all posts on the last few pages are extremely disappointing and beneath the people who are posting them.  There's just so much reductionism and equivocation it's ridiculous.  I think it would be better if we agreed to burn this thread and pretend it never happened.
Burn after reading.
Not before.
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« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2012, 02:37:49 pm »
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I'm a religious person, but not terribly devoted to doctrine.

But something I tend to pick up on in discussions about religion is the tone taken by many athiests. Religious people are painted as being in some perpetual crusade against acceptance. That's a huge micharacterization, even going by what Senator TJ said.

Not all of us are Mr. Bachmanns. Lots of us just believe what we believe and want to live in peace. The thing about outspoken athiests is their arguments are often more pointed and personal. Religious people are always the ones on the defense, while the athiests are on the attack. I don't like that.
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oreomilkshake
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« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2012, 02:50:44 pm »
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I'm a religious person, but not terribly devoted to doctrine.

But something I tend to pick up on in discussions about religion is the tone taken by many athiests. Religious people are painted as being in some perpetual crusade against acceptance. That's a huge micharacterization, even going by what Senator TJ said.

Not all of us are Mr. Bachmanns. Lots of us just believe what we believe and want to live in peace. The thing about outspoken athiests is their arguments are often more pointed and personal. Religious people are always the ones on the defense, while the athiests are on the attack. I don't like that.

They wouldn't be if they weren't constantly bombarded with billboards and told they're going to hell or evil people or whatever other nonsense. I'm probably the most far right person on this forum and I don't really have much sympathy for fundamentalists as far as the "culture wars" go.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2012, 03:05:06 pm »
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Fair enough. We don't have signs like that in Canada. They wouldn't go down well.

Though I have to smile when I see them on the way to Myrtle Beach every year. I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian. I guess I idealize it because I'm not a local.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2012, 04:06:11 pm »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2012, 05:21:50 pm »
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Have you ever been to a Mississauga high school where half the students are Muslims and half the whites are athiests?

Urban Canada is a totally different ball game, especially in youth crowds. My best friend was reprimanded for handing out Christmas cards at school in '07.
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« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2012, 05:36:35 pm »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh
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oreomilkshake
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« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2012, 07:16:36 pm »
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Have you ever been to a Mississauga high school where half the students are Muslims and half the whites are athiests?

Urban Canada is a totally different ball game, especially in youth crowds. My best friend was reprimanded for handing out Christmas cards at school in '07.

In my current state there's a teenage girl still getting death threats for asking her high school to remove a prayer mural that technically was illegal. That's how crazy a lot of americans take their religion. Mind you again, again I'm very right wing and could support your "Christian Heritage" party even from the looks of it. But it's a different ballgame over here.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2012, 07:10:27 am »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
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« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2012, 08:30:35 am »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?
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Antonio V
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« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2012, 08:42:30 am »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?

OK dude, give me just one exaple of when a Christian could be afraid to be Christian in the western world since the second century.
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"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

-- Ted Kennedy
shua
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« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2012, 02:27:46 pm »
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I think it's kind of nice that Christians don't have to be afraid to be Christian.

Luckily this has never happened in the last 2000 years in the western world.
Huh

Christians being afraid to be Christian.
Is that a theological statement?

OK dude, give me just one exaple of when a Christian could be afraid to be Christian in the western world since the second century.
Persecution against Christians took place in the Roman Empire at various times in the 1st-4th century, and in parts of Europe as late as the 10th century. And in the modern age, you have had the persecution of various Christian expressions, sects and religious orders by both 'Christian' and revolutionary/totalitarian regimes.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2012, 04:10:42 pm »
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I also gave you an example that you didn't respond to.

Just because they aren't officially prosecuted doesn't mean the religion hasn't been socially discouraged. Being afraid to be Christian doesn't necessary involve fearing you will die because of your beliefs.
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