The Great Nordic Thread

[Diouf]

Denmark repeals blasphemy law

After weeks of internal discussions and studies of other countries, the Liberals finally decided to support repealing the blasphemy law. The Red-Green Alliance proposed the repeal back in March, and the DPP, SPP and the Social Liberals already then supported the idea. The Alternative was quite split, so decided to have a poll among its members, where 69% voted for repeal. The Liberal Alliance and the Conservatives also supported the repeal in rhetoric, so a majority was already in place. However, a government is supposed to agree on how it votes, so until the Liberals had been convinced, the two smaller government parties could not vote for the repeal. There were different concerns among some Liberals. A few MPs from Christian areas feared protests, others were concerned about possible terror threats, especially since the Police Intelligence Agency said the repeal "could have security implications". However, after a Justice Ministry report showed that the Netherlands, Norway and Iceland had faced no changed security environment after their repeals, the party finally decided to back the repeal.

Different kind of blasphemy bans have existed around as long as religion itself. However, since the introduction of the modern penal code in 1930, there have only been three court cases based on the blasphemy law. The last sentence fell in 1938 when a small group of nazies were sentences for attacks on judaism. The most famous case is from 1971, where two producers from the Danish Radio were accused of breaking the law after a young female singer performed "the Eye", a song which portrayed God as a voyeur "who was so damned hard to get to leave" when she had different sexual interactions. The two producers were acquitted, and since then nobody had been charged after the blasphemy law. In fact, that often became an argument in favour of keeping the law:" no one is being charged with it anyway". However, in February 2017 a man in Northern Jutland was charged after he had uploaded a Facebook video where he burns a Quran. This brought the issue right back on the political agenda, and has now lead to the law being repealed.

Nice to see a strengthening of free speech, although it was a bit painful to see the Liberals take so long to come down on the right side of this question. Hopefully, the so-called racism/hate speech law could be repealed soon as well, but realistically that looks much more difficult, since none of the Red Bloc parties would likely support it. So it would likely be a straight bloc vote if it was to be repealed, and even though the Liberals have previously supported its repeal in opposition, I am quite certain that they will be hesitant in actually voting to repeal it in government. Much of the establishment in the civil service, intelligence agencies, NGOs etc would be opposed to it, and if it is repealed, there will probably be all kind of international criticism. Something the government particually fears after the massive international attention for a week surrounding the so-called "jewelry law", which allowed the police to confiscate items of really high value from asylum seekers to pay for their stay. An obviously symbolic law, which haven't really been used, and which it turned out other countries had in different shapes as well, but still led to the preditable criticism from CNN-hosts, the UN, the Council of Europe etc.

[DavidB.]

So if the Conservatives even supported this -- who didn't, then?

[Diouf]

So if the Conservatives even supported this -- who didn't, then?

Well, in the end only the Social Democrats, which is kind of weird. And even though this is a minor issue, it does slightly dent their overall "tough on migration/islam" message. I guess, it is primarily the establishment factor which have been decisive for the party preferences this time. The two traditional PM parties were very hesitant to go against the wishes of the intelligence agencies and the civil service. Social Democrat leader Mette Frederiksen was Minister of Justice in the previous government, so there is footage of her defending the law, which probably makes it even more difficult for her to agree in changing the position of the party. The public defence of their position, as made in parliament, is as follows:" We believe there should be a legal limit for how low you can go in offending other people. The blasphemy law does not prevent criticism of religion, it simply means you cannot publicly burn holy books. The real question therefore is: Does it make our society better that you can burn holy books? Does it improve our public debate and democracy? We don't think so. Therefore we are opposed to this repeal."

[DavidB.]

Social Democrats being the only political force opposed to repealing restrictions on blasphemy. What a time to be alive.

Completely agree with Frederiksen's line of reasoning, by the way.

[Helsinkian]

Finland still has a law prohibiting blasphemy. Officially Chapter 17, Section 10 of the Finnish criminal code is titled "disturbing religious peace" but as you can see from the very beginning of the text it also prohibits blasphemy:

10 § Disturbing religious peace

Whoever

• 1) publicly blasphemes God or, with the intent to insult, publicly defames or desecrates something a church or another religious community, as defined in the act on religious freedom, considers to be sacred, or
• 2) makes noises, behaves in a threatening manner or otherwise disturbs a religious service, a church proceeding or other similar religious practice or a funeral,

shall be sentenced to pay a fine or serve a prison term no longer than six months for disturbing religious peace.

(Own translation.)

While in the past this law has been used to prosecute people blaspheming the Christian God, in recent years it has mostly been used to prosecute critics of Islam, including Jussi Halla-aho. It has even been used to prosecute people who have drawn cartoons of Mohammed or who have published pictures of themselves desecrating the Quran.

Most Finnish parties support keeping the law as it is. Its critics have mostly come from the Finns Party and the Greens. Yet when a group of Finns Party MPs, during the last parliament, authored a bill that would have repealed the first subsection of this law, Green MPs who had previously criticized the same subsection refused to back the repeal, apparently not wanting to publicly agree on anything with the Finns Party.

While we're on the topic of leftist hypocricy...  A few years ago Päivi Räsänen of the Christian Democrats, then Minister of the Interior, gave a speech on the topic of hospital staff being allowed to refuse performing abortions (in Finland they are not allowed to refuse). In that speech she appeared to imply that in certain issues a Christian must put the Bible above the law. The left-wingers were outraged at this statement and demanded her resignation...

...Now fast-forward a few years to the current time. The refugee crisis brought unprecedented numbers of asylum seekers to Finland. Some were granted asylum, others were not. The Lutheran Church of Finland, a church with a rather liberal theology, took upon itself to protect those asylum seekers who had their application rejected, as well as other "undocumented" people. Some parishes announced that they would offer them asylum in the church even if they had been rejected by the state. In other words, the clergy wanted to put (their interpretation of) the Bible above secular law. For some reason the left-wingers were not outraged this time, on the contrary: the leftists who had for decades railed against Christianity now became great supporters of the Church.

[Blue3]

The picture of the Scandinavian leaders parodying the Trump/Saudi/globe photo with a soccer ball is priceless!

[Diouf]

The picture of the Scandinavian leaders parodying the Trump/Saudi/globe photo with a soccer ball is priceless!

I know the Swedes have parodied Trump before, but my best guess would be that they really weren't trying to do that here. The Danish government has made the UN sustainable development goals, which are pictured on the football, their own soft foreign policy goals. And I would guess something similar is the case for the other Nordic countries since these goals were the main topic for the meeting in the Nordic Council. The Danish Ministers, particularly Kristian Jensen, have been using this football every time they talk about the goals. But yes the comparison is very funny

[Helsinkian]

The Finns Party's party congress convenes tomorrow to vote on the new chairman, as Timo Soini, who has led the party for 20 years, steps down. The main candidates are Sampo Terho, Minister for Culture, and Jussi Halla-aho, MEP. Terho would be seen as a continuation of Soini's rather moderate line. Halla-aho would take the party further to the right on immigration. The Finns Party's coalition partners in the Finnish government, the Centre Party and the National Coalition Party, would prefer Terho.

[Diouf]

The Finns Party's party congress convenes tomorrow to vote on the new chairman, as Timo Soini, who has led the party for 20 years, steps down. The main candidates are Sampo Terho, Minister for Culture, and Jussi Halla-aho, MEP. Terho would be seen as a continuation of Soini's rather moderate line. Halla-aho would take the party further to the right on immigration. The Finns Party's coalition partners in the Finnish government, the Centre Party and the National Coalition Party, would prefer Terho.

Seems like the race has tightened pretty much? Saw a Lännen Media poll among Finns Party local leaders and elected representatives with 43% Terho and 42% Halla-aho.

[Helsinkian]

Yes, the feeling is that race is very tight. Polling is difficult, though, because we don't know how representative the local leaders interviewed for the polls are of the 2,000+ members who will be voting tomorrow.

[Helsinkian]

Halla-aho elected on the first round of voting. Halla-aho 56% of the votes, Sampo Terho 37%.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Will PS leave the government now?

[Helsinkian]

Halla-aho is more open to leaving government than Soini was or Terho would have been, but he will first try to keep the party in government to drive a harder immigration line (which actually does have some basis in the government platform accepted by the three parties in 2015).

[Helsinkian]

Laura Huhtasaari, a close ally of Halla-aho, was elected as the party's 1st deputy chair.

Edit: the 2nd and 3rd deputy chairs are also Halla-aho's allies.

[Diouf]

Halla-aho is more open to leaving government than Soini was or Terho would have been, but he will first try to keep the party in government to drive a harder immigration line (which actually does have some basis in the government platform accepted by the three parties in 2015).

Has he mentioned any specific demands? I wonder whether its just "standard tighentings" which have happened over most of Europe with lower payments to refugees, longer time for family reunification etc. or whether it is more significant measures like Hungarian-style refugee prisons or leaving international conventions and ECHR, which I believe he has proposed earlier.

[Helsinkian]

Not many details yet; I suppose we'll see in the following days.

[DavidB.]

Halla-aho elected on the first round of voting. Halla-aho 56% of the votes, Sampo Terho 37%.

Excellent news, wow!

[Helsinkian]

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https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/newly-elected_halla-aho_sparks_debate_about_future_of_government_coalition/9662545

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https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/new_leader_halla-aho_to_push_finns_party_in_nationalistic_eurosceptic_direction/9663481

[Helsinkian]

Breaking news: following discussions between Jussi Halla-aho and the leaders of the Centre Party, Prime Minister Sipilä, and the National Coalition Party, Finance Minister Petteri Orpo, Sipilä and Orpo have issued a joint statement where they say that they cannot continue in the government coalition with Halla-aho's Finns Party.

According to Halla-aho, he had been ready to honour the government platform of 2015 but demanded that it's immigration part (which, for example, called for Finland to oppose the EU's mandatory refugee reallocation scheme, tighten family reunification criteria etc.) be fully implemented. Sipilä and Orpo did not agree to this.

Most people think Sipilä will now try to form a new coalition with the NCP, the Swedish People's Party and the Christian Democrats. They would only have the slimmest majority. He will try to avoid a new election because the Centre Party is no longer leading the opinion polls. SDP and the Greens have previously said that they won't go to the government without a new election. Left Alliance is off the table.

Speaking as a Finns Party supporter: at least this shows that Halla-aho had the backbone to refuse being a doormat to the NCP and Centre, which is what Soini had been for two years.

[Diouf]

Interesting to see whether the Finns Party will surge back up now. It really is difficult for these anti-migration parties to go into government. Most often it will be with standard centre-right parties, and if they can't convince them to radically change migration policies, most attention will be on economic policies where many of their voters will not be superhappy about right-wing policies.

[Lasitten]

Interesting to see whether the Finns Party will surge back up now. It really is difficult for these anti-migration parties to go into government. Most often it will be with standard centre-right parties, and if they can't convince them to radically change migration policies, most attention will be on economic policies where many of their voters will not be superhappy about right-wing policies.

Many commentators wait now that many of the active in the party are now leaving it because they see Halla-Aho and the new leaders as too right-wing and count them selfs as part of the "vennamolainen" anti-elite continuum. Some minor city councilors have already left the party because of this.

[DavidB.]

Breaking news: following discussions between Jussi Halla-aho and the leaders of the Centre Party, Prime Minister Sipilä, and the National Coalition Party, Finance Minister Petteri Orpo, Sipilä and Orpo have issued a joint statement where they say that they cannot continue in the government coalition with Halla-aho's Finns Party.

According to Halla-aho, he had been ready to honour the government platform of 2015 but demanded that it's immigration part (which, for example, called for Finland to oppose the EU's mandatory refugee reallocation scheme, tighten family reunification criteria etc.) be fully implemented. Sipilä and Orpo did not agree to this.

Most people think Sipilä will now try to form a new coalition with the NCP, the Swedish People's Party and the Christian Democrats. They would only have the slimmest majority. He will try to avoid a new election because the Centre Party is no longer leading the opinion polls. SDP and the Greens have previously said that they won't go to the government without a new election. Left Alliance is off the table.

Speaking as a Finns Party supporter: at least this shows that Halla-aho had the backbone to refuse being a doormat to the NCP and Centre, which is what Soini had been for two years.

Yes, I completely agree: being outside the government is absolutely preferable to being inside a government that doesn't bother to keep its promises on the issues that are most dear to PS, and Halla-aho's demands sound more than reasonable. It is important, however, that the Finns don't burn all of their bridges now; while they may need some time in opposition, they should eventually want to influence policy from within the government again, even if that may not necessarily be after the next election. Halla-aho fortunately isn't as spineless as Soini, but he shouldn't become as untouchable as Wilders either.

[Helsinkian]

Soini showed himself to be the traitor that he was: under his leadership 22 Finns Party MPs are leaving to found a new parliamentary group called "New Alternative". So that leaves Halla-aho's Finns Party with 15 loyal MPs. To my surprise, Sampo Terho is among the defectors, as are other ministers and the speaker of the parliament, Maria Lohela. This "New Alternative" will support the government and apparently the ministers will hold onto their jobs. It seems that they value their own careers more than any sort of ideology or party loyalty. The majority of the parliamentary party did not accept the decision of the majority of members; they have labelled the party congress's democratic election a "coup".

Ironically, it was less than two weeks ago that Soini wrote in his blog that he would never leave the party and called defectors "losers" and "Judases".

I believe it is accurate to describe the new group's ideology as "cuckservatism": pretending to be a conservative but selling out to liberals. I'm sure most of the defectors will lose their seats in the next election.

[DavidB.]

Well, after taking in the number of immigrants Finland did and continuing to sell out to the EU, it was long clear that Soini and his lackeys were there only to further their careers. Very shameful and good riddance, time to rebuild the party without these weasels. Just like nobody was interested in the Finns under Soini anymore, nobody will be interested in a "New Alternative" without a vision. Time for a real alternative instead. Godspeed, Jussi.

[Helsinkian]

The defectors have now been officially expelled from the Finns Party. After thinking about their name for a while, the defectors have decided that "New Alternative" is not that good of a name after all: they have founded a new party called "Blue Reform" in English (though the Finnish name, "Sininen tulevaisuus" literally means "Blue Future"). They now have to gather 5,000 signatures in order to become a registered party. I do not predict a bright future for them.