Greatest country in the world

[fezzyfestoon]

Too many people here are confusing "best" and "greatest".

best: That which is the most excellent, outstanding, or desirable.
greatest: Of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.

That does confuse me. Differentiate them, please.

[Kuu ülevaade olulisematest]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Liechtenstein's by far the worst country in Western Europe.

[Platypus]

Best to live in, obviously not. Most powerful, obviously. Largest, not quite; most populous, nope.

It's a top level country, but I'd be reluctant to say it was the greatest when it only meets one of the four (of many) criterias I picked off the top of my head.

[Jack Vance RIP]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-Downturn Ireland was a ridiculous place. It has much more serious problems now of course, but I really hope that it never was the best country in the world or close. Liechtenstein and the Asian Tigers? LOL no.

[Formerly Californian Tony]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Liechtenstein's by far the worst country in Western Europe.

Yeah, definitely.

[ZuWo]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Liechtenstein's by far the worst country in Western Europe.

Your definition of "worst" is apparently very special.

[asexual trans victimologist]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-downturn Ireland was, as the left in Ireland has started pointing out, voluntarily sacrificing its sociocultural framework by inches on the altar of profit, which is why the downturn happened. Then if you go further back you find that that sociocultural framework was itself Inksed-up in many ways. I love Ireland but it's not a country that seems to really admit of having 'golden ages'. Unless you go back to Brian Boru.

[Jack Vance RIP]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-downturn Ireland was, as the left in Ireland has started pointing out, voluntarily sacrificing its sociocultural framework by inches on the altar of profit, which is why the downturn happened. Then if you go further back you find that that sociocultural framework was itself Inksed-up in many ways. I love Ireland but it's not a country that seems to really admit of having 'golden ages'. Unless you go back to Brian Boru.

The left (whoever they are) have hardly "started" to point that out. And by the way, despite the downturn, it is still doing that.

[opebo]

It is a monstrosity.

[Kuu ülevaade olulisematest]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Liechtenstein's by far the worst country in Western Europe.

Your definition of "worst" is apparently very special.

It's hardly unusual. I suspect that a sizable portion of the Forum would agree.

[asexual trans victimologist]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-downturn Ireland was, as the left in Ireland has started pointing out, voluntarily sacrificing its sociocultural framework by inches on the altar of profit, which is why the downturn happened. Then if you go further back you find that that sociocultural framework was itself Inksed-up in many ways. I love Ireland but it's not a country that seems to really admit of having 'golden ages'. Unless you go back to Brian Boru.

The left (whoever they are) have hardly "started" to point that out. And by the way, despite the downturn, it is still doing that.

Do you mean the left (again, such as it is) has been pointing it out for longer than I've been aware of it or that it hasn't actually started to be pointed out in any meaningful way? I'm going mostly by the new President's statements on the subject here, which I hadn't been hearing much of before him in years of following Irish politics with greater or lesser (admittedly often lesser) degrees of involvement.

I'm completely unsurprised that it's still going on. My point was that pre-downturn Ireland wasn't somehow all roses, because there is a reason why it turned into, well, post-downturn Ireland.

[ZuWo]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Liechtenstein's by far the worst country in Western Europe.

Your definition of "worst" is apparently very special.

It's hardly unusual. I suspect that a sizable portion of the Forum would agree.

It ultimately comes down to the criteria you apply when labelling a country "best" or "worst", but in this case it takes a lot to come up with the bold claim Liechtstein is generally worse than any of its neighbour states or any Western European countries in general.

Indeed, Liechtenstein is an anachronism when it comes to the form of government, and I think it's negative how much power the Prince of Liechtenstein has. Yet, the country is in a state of change; a few days ago citizens launched a popular initiave to abolish the right of veto of their Prince - a step in the right direction. Liechtenstein has also been decried as a tax haven, which was justified and hypocritical at the same time because this criticism came from governments that tolerate the very same tax policies elsewhere. Yes, these are two of the problems Liechtenstein faces, but which country is perfect? Does that make Liechtenstein the "worst" country in Western Europe?

In fact, there are so many reasons to label Liechtenstein the "best" country in Europe. The standard of living in the country is high, unemployment figures are low, and so is the crime rate. There are no tensions in the country, no issues with the treatment of minorities, the health care system is first class etc. Unlike so many Western European countries which you apparently think are "better" Liechtenstein has not been directly involved in recent wars.

So, I think labelling Liechtenstein the "worst" country in Western Europe is a (leftist) knee-jerk remark which hinges on very few isolated criteria while a large number of positive facts are ignored.

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

If some random lily-white rural county in the US or comparable place in another European country somehow got independence and raised hordes of money as a banking and tax haven for several decades despite having only about 35k people, it too could easily put an end to unemployment and have a first class health care system. It's not a sustainable model for any country of a realistic size. I suppose it's somewhat hypocritical for countries like the UK and France to condemn Liechtenstein when the Cayman Islands and all the French Pacific islands exist as they do, but that's not really the point.

[ZuWo]

If some random lily-white rural county in the US or comparable place in another European country somehow got independence and raised hordes of money as a banking and tax haven for several decades despite having only about 35k people, it too could easily put an end to unemployment and have a first class health care system. It's not a sustainable model for any country of a realistic size. I suppose it's somewhat hypocritical for countries like the UK and France to condemn Liechtenstein when the Cayman Islands and all the French Pacific islands exist as they do, but that's not really the point.

First of all, the economy of Liechtenstein does not solely depend on banking. The industrial sector, for example, is a very important pillar of the country's economy as well. Secondly, by far not all of the money the banks of Liechtenstein has "hoarded" can be attribited to tax fraud or other illegal activities. Thirdly, Liechtenstein, by virtue of being a tiny country with few natural resources, can hardly pursue an economic model that would be suitable for big and powerful countries. The economy of a country of Liechtenstein's size is compelled to find certain niches in order to be prosperous. Fourth, in the recent years the government of Liechtenstein has undertaken numerous measures to fight money laundering as well as tax fraud and is on track to do away with immoral practices of its financial sector.  

[Jack Vance RIP]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-downturn Ireland was, as the left in Ireland has started pointing out, voluntarily sacrificing its sociocultural framework by inches on the altar of profit, which is why the downturn happened. Then if you go further back you find that that sociocultural framework was itself Inksed-up in many ways. I love Ireland but it's not a country that seems to really admit of having 'golden ages'. Unless you go back to Brian Boru.

The left (whoever they are) have hardly "started" to point that out. And by the way, despite the downturn, it is still doing that.

Do you mean the left (again, such as it is) has been pointing it out for longer than I've been aware of it or that it hasn't actually started to be pointed out in any meaningful way? I'm going mostly by the new President's statements on the subject here, which I hadn't been hearing much of before him in years of following Irish politics with greater or lesser (admittedly often lesser) degrees of involvement.

I'm completely unsurprised that it's still going on. My point was that pre-downturn Ireland wasn't somehow all roses, because there is a reason why it turned into, well, post-downturn Ireland.

The first one. Criticism of the Property-Finance-PolitcalParties-Vulgarity axis did not begin in 2007. At least the vulgarity has somewhat gone.

[freefair]

Historically yes, at the moment is still one of many great free democratic nations in which to live.

[asexual trans victimologist]

I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.

Pre-downturn Ireland was, as the left in Ireland has started pointing out, voluntarily sacrificing its sociocultural framework by inches on the altar of profit, which is why the downturn happened. Then if you go further back you find that that sociocultural framework was itself Inksed-up in many ways. I love Ireland but it's not a country that seems to really admit of having 'golden ages'. Unless you go back to Brian Boru.

The left (whoever they are) have hardly "started" to point that out. And by the way, despite the downturn, it is still doing that.

Do you mean the left (again, such as it is) has been pointing it out for longer than I've been aware of it or that it hasn't actually started to be pointed out in any meaningful way? I'm going mostly by the new President's statements on the subject here, which I hadn't been hearing much of before him in years of following Irish politics with greater or lesser (admittedly often lesser) degrees of involvement.

I'm completely unsurprised that it's still going on. My point was that pre-downturn Ireland wasn't somehow all roses, because there is a reason why it turned into, well, post-downturn Ireland.

The first one. Criticism of the Property-Finance-PolitcalParties-Vulgarity axis did not begin in 2007. At least the vulgarity has somewhat gone.

I remember being astonished by just how lowbrow Sean Gallagher came across, and especially that it at times seemed to be intentional. It reminded me vaguely of George W. Bush but in some ways seemed even more pronounced, at least from my side of the Atlantic, because the man was literally a game show host. Though he, of course, lost the final round in a landslide (or what seemed like a landslide, there have been enough uncontested Irish presidential elections that I'm not entirely sure what constitutes a landslide in elections to the office) to a former sociology professor who writes poetry.

[Jack Vance RIP]

The thing about Gallagher was that he was the embodiment of the cult of the entrepreneur (which became very pronounced during the late Keltic Tigah period) - basically his whole campaign message was "I'm a successful entrepreneur, therefore vote for me" with the assumption behind it was that being a "successful entrepreneur" was the kind of positive value that represented all that was good about the Tigah and what would eventually boost us back to prosperity. The message had a lot of appeal with certain segments of the electorate (though certainly not with others).

Of course, near the end and after the campaign it was revealed that most of Gallagher's business 'success' was due in part to his political connections and in other part due to financial smoke and mirrors. So exactly like every other self-proclaimed "successful entrepreneur" during the era of stupidity and vulgarity known as the Keltic Tigah.

[politicus]

Many posts on this thread are straying from the topic, so I am closing it now. I was curious about what that statement meant to Americans. To a European it is somewhat "over the top" even if it is understandable in many ways.
We didn't get around to the civilization/technology/culture part of "greatest". But that is definitely part of having the greatest impact on the world.