Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 06, 2016, 06:27:02 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Be sure to enable your "Ultimate Profile" for even more goodies on your profile page!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Constitution and Law (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | |-+  anyone heard this argument before
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: anyone heard this argument before  (Read 1058 times)
freepcrusher
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2544
United States


View Profile
« on: July 10, 2012, 07:12:34 pm »
Ignore

I've met plenty of fundies before and argued with them. One thing I've heard them say is that the point of the separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state.

Anyone heard this argument before? What's your view on it?
Logged

-1.38, -1.38
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31160
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 07:29:46 pm »

Yes I have.  I'm not a fundamentalist, but I wholeheartedly agree with it.  One of the reasons why religion has thrived here in the States even as it has precipitously declined in Europe is that our churches are not state sponsored.  The pastors and denominations can't count on getting paid via taxes but actually have to make what they say relevant to the laity.
Logged

Quote from: Ignatius of Antioch
He that possesses the word of Jesus, is truly able to bear his very silence. ó Epistle to the Ephesians 3:21a
The one thing everyone can agree on is that the media is biased against them.
Leaving New Hampshire is always a good decision to make.
Cathcon
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16893
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 10:52:20 am »
Ignore

The point for the Jeffersonian idea of separation was that neither interferred with the other. Not one gets priority over the other like both sides might argue. Church stays out of government matters, government stays out of church matters. No established churches, no taxes going to churches, no government controlling who gets what religious job, no church saying who gets what political job, etc.
Logged

In Unfortunate Son, the year is 1991 and President Linwood Holton (R-VA) has invaded Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein!
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6211
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 09:03:58 pm »
Ignore

I generally agree with Cathcon, but I think it's important to distinguish between Church and God. While Church and State may be separate to make sure neither entity interferes in the administration of the other, I don't believe anyone ever intended God to be precluded from government.
Logged

Bow all your heads to our adored Mary Katherine.
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14944


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 11:34:49 pm »
Ignore

I generally agree with Cathcon, but I think it's important to distinguish between Church and God. While Church and State may be separate to make sure neither entity interferes in the administration of the other, I don't believe anyone ever intended God to be precluded from government.

Well, no. We want folks to vote and govern according to their beliefs and core values. The way this works in America means that we come late to much-needed change sometimes, but on the whole I'd say it's been immensely good for us as a polity and a people.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.



He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He hath sent empty away.
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14480
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 2.06, S: -4.52


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2012, 04:58:53 pm »
Ignore

I've met plenty of fundies before and argued with them. One thing I've heard them say is that the point of the separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state.

Anyone heard this argument before? What's your view on it?
It sounds like a nonsense statement. You can't have the church be part of the state and have the state be kept out of the church.
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15526


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 03:00:42 pm »
Ignore

It makes a lot of sense.  Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church.  Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure.
Logged

Snowstalker   mikado is content with only questions
23:03   Snowstalker   questions never helped anyone
23:03   Snowstalker   only answers
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 59682
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 04:04:40 pm »
Ignore

It makes a lot of sense.  Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church.  Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure.

Which is exactly what would happen. Because it would be America.
Logged



"It is the essence of a true democracy that people should be respected individually, not simply collectively. It is also of the essence of a democracy that differences and distinctions are recognised and, where relevant, honoured. A democracy should be above all a thoughtful type of society, in these and other respects."

Richard Hoggart
Cathcon
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16893
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 10:24:30 pm »
Ignore

It makes a lot of sense.  Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church.  Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure.

Were I a Congressman, I'd definitely go for the latter.
Logged

In Unfortunate Son, the year is 1991 and President Linwood Holton (R-VA) has invaded Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein!
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines