Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2014, 12:02:02 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Peter, afleitch)
| | |-+  NHS bill passes
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: NHS bill passes  (Read 1358 times)
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11983
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« on: March 20, 2012, 03:46:15 pm »
Ignore

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/20/nhs-reform-bill-health-passes?newsfeed=true

And thus begins the great leap backwards...
Logged

You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 03:49:53 pm »
Ignore

This government is beyond disgusting. I can't describe how angry the Liberals and the Conservatives make me.

Gained a new found respect for Andy Burnham for his speech in the Commons today.
Logged

hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3036
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 04:26:54 pm »
Ignore

*facepalm*
The Lib Dems may as well merge with the Tories.
At this rate you'll have America's health care..... my condolences.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 04:48:18 pm »
Ignore

*facepalm*
The Lib Dems may as well merge with the Tories.
At this rate you'll have America's health care..... my condolences.

The LibDems are a bigger joke than UKIP.
Logged

hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3036
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 04:53:10 pm »
Ignore

Cameron and Clegg are basically David Owen and David Steel from Spitting Image
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 05:11:30 pm »
Ignore

Oh, Labour have pledged to repeal the bill should they win the next election, if it matters to anyone.
Logged

k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11983
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 05:27:42 pm »
Ignore

Oh, Labour have pledged to repeal the bill should they win the next election, if it matters to anyone.

They also pledged to renationalize the railways if they won the 1997 election. Their promises aren't worth the paper they're written on, and I say that as a Labour member.
Logged

asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11302


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 05:35:14 pm »
Ignore

My greatest condolences.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
afleitch
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21410


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 05:38:32 pm »

Doesn't affect me. Which will of course will allow comparisons between the two systems to be made in order to judge it's success.

Of course, it helps my party a great deal that Labour offer no effective opposition to anything anymore.
Logged

London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5912
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 05:40:27 pm »
Ignore

Just looking at the new structure, you can tell this is a dumb idea.
Logged

You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 06:27:09 pm »
Ignore

Just looking at the new structure, you can tell this is a dumb idea.

It's more complicated than the NHS is now.

And slightly deviating from the subject, but i'm assuming we have PMQs before Gideon's budget statement tomorrow, right?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 06:52:50 pm by I'm Mitt Romney and I like grits »Logged

Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3187
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 07:33:36 pm »
Ignore

Oh, Labour have pledged to repeal the bill should they win the next election, if it matters to anyone.

They also pledged to renationalize the railways if they won the 1997 election. Their promises aren't worth the paper they're written on, and I say that as a Labour member.

That's the most depressing thing. I wouldn't mind the Tories having their day out, privatising everything in sight etc if I thought it'd ever get reversed. I seen an interview yesterday where Miliband was asked about what he thought regarding the proposals for the roads, and he said "he'd have to look at the details", and didn't think it was the best thing for the moment whilst families are squeezed or some such, begging the question: are they to be simply opposed (in the most milquetoast fashion possible) under these bleak conditions?

There's more support for nationalising supermarkets than there is for privatising the NHS the last time I looked, and yet here we find ourselves.
Logged

You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 08:02:03 pm »
Ignore

Oh, Labour have pledged to repeal the bill should they win the next election, if it matters to anyone.

They also pledged to renationalize the railways if they won the 1997 election. Their promises aren't worth the paper they're written on, and I say that as a Labour member.

That's the most depressing thing. I wouldn't mind the Tories having their day out, privatising everything in sight etc if I thought it'd ever get reversed. I seen an interview yesterday where Miliband was asked about what he thought regarding the proposals for the roads, and he said "he'd have to look at the details", and didn't think it was the best thing for the moment whilst families are squeezed or some such, begging the question: are they to be simply opposed (in the most milquetoast fashion possible) under these bleak conditions?

There's more support for nationalising supermarkets than there is for privatising the NHS the last time I looked, and yet here we find ourselves.

Elective dictatorship. Public opinion only matters in a moral context when parliament is sovereign.
Logged

Comrade Sibboleth
Realpolitik
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 55490
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2012, 09:47:38 pm »
Ignore

This whole situation raises important questions about our democracy. No one voted for this and it was not part of the so-called Coalition Agreement. It cannot be seriously argued that this is emergency legislation of some kind either (even allowing for an extremely generous definition of 'emergency') as the NHS is not in crisis. So...?

Beyond that - and as in all things this government does - this seems mostly a question of picking up where the Major government left off. You also have to wonder what the LibDems think they're doing, because there's really no way this could ever reflect well on them...
Logged



Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
YL
YorkshireLiberal
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1014
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: -5.35, S: -6.70


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 02:30:51 am »
Ignore

You also have to wonder what the LibDems think they're doing, because there's really no way this could ever reflect well on them...

I'm not sure that the Lib Dems collectively think anything at the moment...

The Lib Dem leadership is, I think, doing this because most of them actually agree with what Lansley wanted to do.  They seem to have a bizarre desire to turn the Lib Dems into our very own FDP, which might suggest that they haven't looked at many German opinion polls recently.  (And I suspect most German FDP supporters would be Tories in the UK anyway.)

A large part of the Lib Dem rank and file is clearly opposed to the bill and has twice produced conference votes against it.  One thing this has exposed is that the Lib Dems' claim to have more democratic decision making processes than the other parties is dubious.

That leaves the parliamentarians.  Some of them will be in the leadership's camp anyway, but certainly not all of them, so the mystery for me is why the rebellions have been so small.  I suppose the likes of Farron and Hughes, who are supposedly standard bearers for the left, have positions which make it hard for them to rebel, but in that case they ought to have considered resigning them.
Logged

You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2012, 11:39:13 am »
Ignore

You also have to wonder what the LibDems think they're doing, because there's really no way this could ever reflect well on them...

I'm not sure that the Lib Dems collectively think anything at the moment...

The Lib Dem leadership is, I think, doing this because most of them actually agree with what Lansley wanted to do.  They seem to have a bizarre desire to turn the Lib Dems into our very own FDP, which might suggest that they haven't looked at many German opinion polls recently.  (And I suspect most German FDP supporters would be Tories in the UK anyway.)

A large part of the Lib Dem rank and file is clearly opposed to the bill and has twice produced conference votes against it.  One thing this has exposed is that the Lib Dems' claim to have more democratic decision making processes than the other parties is dubious.

That leaves the parliamentarians.  Some of them will be in the leadership's camp anyway, but certainly not all of them, so the mystery for me is why the rebellions have been so small.  I suppose the likes of Farron and Hughes, who are supposedly standard bearers for the left, have positions which make it hard for them to rebel, but in that case they ought to have considered resigning them.

That Orange Book has murdered the Liberal Democrats. And you're right, most of them probably do want to be like FDP and probably do agree with the Conservatives - no one's physically dragged them down the Aye lobby, after all. That, or they just love their ministerial limos too much.

And if the Liberals actually are holding the Tories back like they say they are, i'd hate to imagine what a majority Tory government'd be like. Bloody hell.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 11:41:33 am by I'm Mitt Romney and I like grits »Logged

Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4396
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2012, 11:56:18 am »
Ignore

So, how far do these reforms actually go? Do they substantially alter the essence of the NHS?
Logged

Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3187
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2012, 12:01:25 pm »
Ignore

I think we can safely call them the most radical reforms since its inception.

What's bizarre is one of the Liberals, even the most right-wing neoliberal sort, raison d'etre is pushing the argument for coalitions and yet have done wonders in utterly discrediting the notion (the idea a majority Tory government wouldn't be doing much the same is fanciful).  

I suppose since we're comparing FDP, the small rump they'll be reduced to could exist as a natural partner to the Tories. Are there many parts of Germany which are solely CDU-FDP battlegrounds? As that's the case at the moment in much of the South of England - it's difficult to believe they're that right-wing down there, but then wonders never cease.  
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:12:46 pm by Leftbehind »Logged

Carlos Danger
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8410
Liechtenstein


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2012, 12:21:15 pm »
Ignore

From what I know about this bill, especially in its watered-down form, it doesn't really do anything meaningful at all, which makes the hysterical reactions to it somewhat amusing.

The Lib Dems are suffering a case of coalitionitis (junior partner always gets hammered in the polls), so the Tories can get them to vote for anything by threatening to make it a confidence vote.
Logged

Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3187
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2012, 12:44:12 pm »
Ignore

A lolbertarian would say that.

The Tories are utterly reliant on the Liberals for anything passing, so it's the Liberals themselves who've opted to slavishly allow everything, rather than the situation. If they'd caused the government to fall over saving the NHS from the Tories forcing a policy on them which they neither campaigned on or had as part of their coalition agreement, they'd hardly be punished for it!

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:46:30 pm by Leftbehind »Logged

MaxQue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8274
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2012, 02:22:48 pm »
Ignore

I doubt than FDP-CDU battlegrounds exists. The nature of the German electoral system makes than parties aren't trying to build themselves in specific areas, but are trying to get votes everywhere.

If some areas like that exists, I would search in Baden-Württemberg, which was ruled by FDP in the 40's-50's.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 02:25:10 pm by Chemistry & Sleep Deprivation »Logged
You kip if you want to...
change08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8461
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 04:31:33 pm »
Ignore

The (apparent) risk register's (apparently) been leaked:
http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102665899193-912/Health-Bill-Transition-Risk-Register-NC-15-Oct-10-Dept-Bd-Version-v1.pdf

Probably the worst week this government's had so far, surely.
Logged

Comrade Sibboleth
Realpolitik
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 55490
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 01:41:27 pm »
Ignore

Cheap but hilarious:



Yay, B3ta.
Logged



Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3187
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2012, 02:54:15 pm »
Ignore

Cheesy That's great.
Logged

London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5912
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 01:07:48 pm »
Ignore

Nice find, Al!
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines