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Question: Do you agree that "The United States of America is the greatest country in the history of mankind"
Yes   -16 (33.3%)
No   -32 (66.7%)
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Total Voters: 48

Author Topic: Greatest country in the world  (Read 1987 times)
Joe Republic
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2012, 10:51:10 pm »
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To those who think the US is the greatest country in the world, please indicate why your country is better than the following countries:

A) Canada
B) UK
C) France
D) Denmark
E) Norway
F) The Netherlands
G) Australia
H) New Zealand

Thank you.

BECAUSE AMERICA IS RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG
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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2012, 11:11:20 pm »
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To those who think the US is the greatest country in the world, please indicate why your country is better than the following countries:

A) Canada
B) UK
C) France
D) Denmark
E) Norway
F) The Netherlands
G) Australia
H) New Zealand

Thank you.
More of a role in the past century to advance freedom...

OK, that's all well and good (not to mention, debatable, but let's ignore that for now), but that's only a small aspect of greatness. And, in the case of the US, as been negated more often than not. Now, you're going to say "nobodies perfect", well, yeah, but if it's your sole basis for why your country is better than everyone else, you should come up with a better reason than something that is flawed.
I'm NOT saying we are better than them, but here is two things...checked the Soviets (admittedly with the help of the above) and put a bunch of men on the moon, got them back again.

Putting a man on the moon was a truly awesome feat, for sure. And perhaps that argument would have had better sway if this were 1969. But, it's 2012, and the US can't afford that anymore.

And, wasn't the Soviet Union going to crumble under its own weight anyways? I know Americans (and I guess many Canadians too) and especially Republicans like to think they had a hand in it, just because Reagan told Gobachev to tear down the Berlin wall. But like I said, that's ancient history.

I'm not saying there wasn't a time where the US may have had a legitimate shot at being considered the greatest country in the world. Perhaps the same is true, today. However, what bugs me are those that claim they know this for certain. It is quite arrogant and jingoistic, and appears to be backed up by Cold War nostalgia.



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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2012, 11:17:11 pm »
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American exceptionalism is bullsh**t. We are a nation like any other. We are good in some ways and bad in others.
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2012, 11:24:08 pm »
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I'd say the answer is probably Canada which is basically the US with most of the bad things about it greatly toned down (not entirely eliminated of course as Stephen Harper's majority currently proves), and no particular bad things about it that stand out (like the xenophobia in a lot of European countries, censorship-happiness in Australia, nanny statism in Scandinavia, etc.)

New Zealand kind of fits that bill too but it's too geographically isolated for me. (OK from what I've heard the anti-Maori racism can be kind of bad, but not necessarily any worse than the treatment of minorities in the US.)
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2012, 11:26:06 pm »
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Individual countries may be better in one aspect or another than the US, but I can't think of any nation that consistently has the attributes necessary to dethrone the US. This doesn't give us any divine right or privilege or anything; I just think it gives us more responsibility and expectations, in a multitude of different ways, but we should still play by most of the same rules.
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2012, 11:27:41 pm »
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And, wasn't the Soviet Union going to crumble under its own weight anyways?
Probably, but it could have lasted longer if it had free reign to do what it wanted to lesser contries the world over for the length of it's existence.  Trying to stay competitive with the US led West is what hammered the nails in it's coffin....or at least that's how I learned it.  I always enjoy having my ignorance fought though.
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 11:27:53 pm »
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I'd say the answer is probably Canada which is basically the US with most of the bad things about it greatly toned down (not entirely eliminated of course as Stephen Harper's majority currently proves), and no particular bad things about it that stand out (like the xenophobia in a lot of European countries, censorship-happiness in Australia, nanny statism in Scandinavia, etc.)

New Zealand kind of fits that bill too but it's too geographically isolated for me. (OK from what I've heard the anti-Maori racism can be kind of bad, but not necessarily any worse than the treatment of minorities in the US.)

Sorry, but Canada is much too minor a country in world history to be considered the greatest.
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 11:30:07 pm »
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Indeed....Canada might not have a long list of bad/horrible things...but what have they done for the world community outside of giving us Alan Thike and Celine Dion?
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2012, 11:31:49 pm »
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Indeed....Canada might not have a long list of bad/horrible things...but what have they done for the world community outside of giving us Alan Thike and Celine Dion?

Plus they gave us Nickelback and Justin Bieber. Sounds like a horrible country to me. Wink
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 11:34:27 pm »
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I'd say the answer is probably Canada which is basically the US with most of the bad things about it greatly toned down (not entirely eliminated of course as Stephen Harper's majority currently proves), and no particular bad things about it that stand out (like the xenophobia in a lot of European countries, censorship-happiness in Australia, nanny statism in Scandinavia, etc.)

New Zealand kind of fits that bill too but it's too geographically isolated for me. (OK from what I've heard the anti-Maori racism can be kind of bad, but not necessarily any worse than the treatment of minorities in the US.)

While I'm honoured you would say Canada, I think our time in the sun has past, much like our American neighbours. I would argue that Canada was the greatest country in the world back in the 1990s. At least, the UN thought we were.

I'd say the answer is probably Canada which is basically the US with most of the bad things about it greatly toned down (not entirely eliminated of course as Stephen Harper's majority currently proves), and no particular bad things about it that stand out (like the xenophobia in a lot of European countries, censorship-happiness in Australia, nanny statism in Scandinavia, etc.)

New Zealand kind of fits that bill too but it's too geographically isolated for me. (OK from what I've heard the anti-Maori racism can be kind of bad, but not necessarily any worse than the treatment of minorities in the US.)

Sorry, but Canada is much too minor a country in world history to be considered the greatest.

Where we lack in history, we gain in geography. Both are only small parts of what makes a country great, however.

Indeed....Canada might not have a long list of bad/horrible things...but what have they done for the world community outside of giving us Alan Thike and Celine Dion?

Plenty of things. But they don't teach that in American schools.
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« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 11:36:06 pm »
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I think we're running up against a 'best' and 'greatest' distinction here. America's the greatest, for the reasons that Clarence and realisticidealist articulated, but there are quite a few areas in which it's not necessarily the best.

Also, Canada gave us Anne Shirley, Leonard Cohen, and poutine.
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« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 11:40:31 pm »
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Plenty of things. But they don't teach that in American schools.
Agreed.  So, huh, what are some of those things?  Fight my ignorance.
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« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 11:48:02 pm »
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Plenty of things. But they don't teach that in American schools.
Agreed.  So, huh, what are some of those things?  Fight my ignorance.

Well, here's a list of inventions, for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_inventions
Here's a background of our military history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_military_history
I'm especially proud of our often ignored, but significant contribution during WW2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_World_War_II Our most notable WW2 achievement was liberating Holland. To this day, the Dutch love us, and send us tulips every year.

But I don't have to defend Canada, it isn't in my opinion the greatest country in the world. It is however, one of them.
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« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2012, 11:49:16 pm »
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Indeed....Canada might not have a long list of bad/horrible things...but what have they done for the world community outside of giving us Alan Thike and Celine Dion?

OK but can you seriously make the argument that most of the US is a better place to live than most of Canada? The only way I would see someone do this is rant about "OMG SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE" but with what the teabaggers are saying even that would be a moot point now (or will be soon.)
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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2012, 12:02:15 am »
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Plenty of things. But they don't teach that in American schools.
Agreed.  So, huh, what are some of those things?  Fight my ignorance.

Well, here's a list of inventions, for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_inventions
Here's a background of our military history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_military_history
I'm especially proud of our often ignored, but significant contribution during WW2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_World_War_II Our most notable WW2 achievement was liberating Holland. To this day, the Dutch love us, and send us tulips every year.
Sadly, for whatever stupid reason, I can't get to wikipedia tonight from work.  (the horrors!)  But I am aware that Canada did at least it's fair share during WWII.  Certainly more than Ireland or Brazil to name two.
Indeed....Canada might not have a long list of bad/horrible things...but what have they done for the world community outside of giving us Alan Thike and Celine Dion?

OK but can you seriously make the argument that most of the US is a better place to live than most of Canada? The only way I would see someone do this is rant about "OMG SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE" but with what the teabaggers are saying even that would be a moot point now (or will be soon.)
Well, one could make the argument that there are MORE "better places to live" in the US than Canada.  Sure Toronto or Vancouver are as good or better than any city the US can offer, but is Alberta really better than, say, Madison or Omaha?

(and we can argue about specific cities all day, lets not, you understand my point)
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« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2012, 12:36:39 am »
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Alberta is a bad example, dead0man. The $$$'s good there. Although, I'm sure Madison, WI is a fine place to live. Not sure about Omaha, though.

Canadian cities regularly outrank American cities, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_most_livable_cities (I know you can't access Wikipedia, but that first chart shows Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver in the top 10 in the world). No US city makes the top 10 in any chart.

Interestingly, Maclean's magazine ranks neither of those cities as the best city to live in Canada, which apparently is my city, Ottawa http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/20/government-jobs-help-ottawa-earn-best-place-to-live-ranking/ (although, Hashemite have something to say about that)

Here's another list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_Living_Survey

4) Vancouver
14) Ottawa
16) Toronto
21) Montreal
28) Calgary
31) Honolulu (top US city)
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« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2012, 12:47:52 am »
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Canada also doesn't have as much as that awful sprawly exurbia (not saying it's nonexistant mind you, but there's nothing like metro Atlanta or SoCal in Canada.)
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« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2012, 01:32:18 am »
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I've never understood why Calgary scores so high on those lists. It seems like a boring as sh**t place to live, with most of its residents experiencing a serene yet culturally vapid lifestyle no different than millions of bland American (and Canadian) suburbanites. I'd easily take Chicago, NYC, London, Copenhagen, Vienna, Turin, etc., over anywhere in the perpetual snoozefest that is Alberta.

One area where the US/Canada own the rest of the world is movie release dates. There was like a two month gap between the North American release of Episode I and its release date in most European countries. Of course paying more than $5 to watch movies is a little bit 1990s for me, but certain releases you just have to catch the midnight showing.
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« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2012, 02:12:22 am »
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I suspect Calgary ranks highly because of the oil boom is causing an economic bubble that artificially inflates metrics used to calculate things in "quality of life". Though I'll admit being able to get $12/hour upon hiring to a job at McDonald's is nothing to complain about (assuming that's actually the case in Calgary, just basing that on hearsay.)
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« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2012, 02:31:32 am »
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Let's be honest; no place where the average daily low temperature is below freezing can possibly be considered "livable" insofar as humans aren't designed to live in those places.

Canada also doesn't have as much as that awful sprawly exurbia (not saying it's nonexistant mind you, but there's nothing like metro Atlanta or SoCal in Canada.)

Obviously it's not the size of the ones you mentioned, but the Fraser Valley isn't small.
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« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2012, 04:54:56 am »
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One of the greatest ? Certainly. The most influential in the international scene ? Of course. But it has several major flaws that make it impossible to call it the greatest.
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« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2012, 05:27:08 am »
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No, most international indexes and rankings agree that Norway is currently the greatest country in the world.
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« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2012, 07:29:02 am »
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Interestingly, Maclean's magazine ranks neither of those cities as the best city to live in Canada, which apparently is my city, Ottawa http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/20/government-jobs-help-ottawa-earn-best-place-to-live-ranking/ (although, Hashemite have something to say about that)

Ottawa is a nice city, but at the same time it's generally pretty boring of a place.

Once again, the correct answer is that there is no such thing as "the greatest country in the world".
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« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2012, 12:47:42 pm »
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Too many people here are confusing "best" and "greatest".
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« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2012, 12:53:46 pm »
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I don't know why American right-wingers continue to reflexively love a country that has rampant abortion (that alone makes me despise the modern US) and spends an ungodly amount on hand outs and "humanitarian intervention" and all that other garbage. I have more respect for pre-downturn Ireland or Liechtenstein or one of the "asian tigers" or something like that.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

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