Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

[asexual trans victimologist]

Who in the world do you think you are?

You don't know me.

If you were actually biracial you wouldn't be using so many racist code words ("thuggin", really?) and if you were reasonable, you wouldn't be using Fox News as a legitimate source.

EDIT: Also, if you've got McNaughton as signature art, you are not politically reasonable.

Now, now, let's not go down the 'it's not possible for biracial people to be racist' road even by accident, since that's part of the asinine defense of Zimmerman from people who--and there are these people out there--simply refuse to accept the idea that this case might be about race.

ETA: You know of the person who's responsible for CaDan's signature? I don't know whether to envy your savvy or pity such knowledge or both.

[Zioneer]

Who in the world do you think you are?

You don't know me.

If you were actually biracial you wouldn't be using so many racist code words ("thuggin", really?) and if you were reasonable, you wouldn't be using Fox News as a legitimate source.

EDIT: Also, if you've got McNaughton as signature art, you are not politically reasonable.

Now, now, let's not go down the 'it's not possible for biracial people to be racist' road even by accident, since that's part of the asinine defense of Zimmerman from people who--and there are these people out there--simply refuse to accept the idea that this case might be about race.

ETA: You know of the person who's responsible for CaDan's signature? I don't know whether to envy your savvy or pity such knowledge or both.

Fair enough for the biracial thing, but I was working off the basic assumption that most biracial people in the US would at least know of racist "code words", and pointedly wouldn't use them.

As for McNaughton, yeah I know about him. He's a pretty high profile conservative Mormon artist. You've probably seen this from him, or even just the parody. As an extremely liberal Mormon, I hate him with a passion, and he holds a place second only to Glenn Beck as "Mormon conservative who makes my blood boil".

[asexual trans victimologist]

Who in the world do you think you are?

You don't know me.

If you were actually biracial you wouldn't be using so many racist code words ("thuggin", really?) and if you were reasonable, you wouldn't be using Fox News as a legitimate source.

EDIT: Also, if you've got McNaughton as signature art, you are not politically reasonable.

Now, now, let's not go down the 'it's not possible for biracial people to be racist' road even by accident, since that's part of the asinine defense of Zimmerman from people who--and there are these people out there--simply refuse to accept the idea that this case might be about race.

ETA: You know of the person who's responsible for CaDan's signature? I don't know whether to envy your savvy or pity such knowledge or both.

Fair enough for the biracial thing, but I was working off the basic assumption that most biracial people in the US would at least know of racist "code words", and pointedly wouldn't use them.

In general, yes, this is certainly true, and one of the many reasons to think that this CaDan fellow might not be hyaku parcento legit.

As for McNaughton, yeah I know about him. He's a pretty high profile conservative Mormon artist. You've probably seen this from him, or even just the parody. As an extremely liberal Mormon, I hate him with a passion, and he holds a place second only to Glenn Beck as "Mormon conservative who makes my blood boil".

Oh God. Kind of like why I am familiar with and disgusted by Nicholas Okoh, then. Got it.

[Paul Kemp]

Wait ok so let's say for the sake of argument that Zimmerman WAS attacked by Martin. That makes it OK to kill a child? Even if in "self-defense?"

[asexual trans victimologist]

Wait ok so let's say for the sake of argument that Zimmerman WAS attacked by Martin. That makes it OK to kill a child? Even if in "self-defense?"

Under the law of Florida, sadly, yes, excepting the fact that Zimmerman was stalking Martin after being told not to by a dispatcher.

[Sibboleth]

Wait ok so let's say for the sake of argument that Zimmerman WAS attacked by Martin. That makes it OK to kill a child? Even if in "self-defense?"

Under the law of Florida, sadly, yes, excepting the fact that Zimmerman was stalking Martin after being told not to by a dispatcher.

I think he means in terms of the general morality of the situation, not whether such an action would be alright according to laws drawn up by racist cretins under the influence of PCP.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Wait ok so let's say for the sake of argument that Zimmerman WAS attacked by Martin. That makes it OK to kill a child? Even if in "self-defense?"

Under the law of Florida, sadly, yes, excepting the fact that Zimmerman was stalking Martin after being told not to by a dispatcher.

I think he means in terms of the general morality of the situation, not whether such an action would be alright according to laws drawn up by racist cretins under the influence of PCP.

Then just as clearly no. Then again, I'm a fairly firm pacifist in general.

[Sibboleth]

Come to think of it, isn't 'racist cretin under the influence of PCP' a fairly objective description of CaDan?

[asexual trans victimologist]

PCP might be a mite specific. I haven't ruled out black tar heroin.

[So the Heroes Fall]

Doesn't this McNaughton guy remind everyone of David Dees?

[asexual trans victimologist]

The art style, purely independent of the content, reminds me a little of fifties advertising copy with the insipidity turned up a few dozen notches.

[Sam Spade]

This is top-notch trolling.

As for the actual incident, we know far too little to be making judgments on this one, much less convictions.  If he was actually attacked or threatened with force, then it would depend on whether there was threat of deadly force or not. Of course, it would have to be threat of force or actual force basically at the same time as the attack occurred.

One thing is for sure - there must an opportunity for money here, since the reverends Al and Jesse are around.

[So the Heroes Fall]

The art style, purely independent of the content, reminds me a little of fifties advertising copy with the insipidity turned up a few dozen notches.

I think you weren't here when the "art" of Dees was being regularly posted. If you want to laugh and be horrified at the same time: http://www.sl-webs.com/deesillustration/artwork.asp?cat=satire

[Lief]

Why are we blaming drugs for CaDan's condition? Let us not sully the relatively good names of PCP and black tar heroin in the defense of this racist.

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

I'm wondering, is CaDan the most evil poster to ever post on Atlas?

[jimrtex]

And that's pretty much it. It doesn't say who actually started the altercation, nor does it say whether the witness saw that much.

So what we know about this case is that Zimmerman reported Martin as a suspicious person to the police, was told that they were sending someone and to not pursue Martin himself, and yet he did so anyways. Martin didn't know why Zimmerman was following him, he just knew some strange guy was following him for unknown reasons. Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle at some point and the altercation and shooting happens. None of this is in question.

At 2:08 into Zimmerman's phone call he says that Martin is starting to run.  At 2:23, the dispatcher asks him whether he is following Martin.   Zimmerman says "yeah".  The dispatcher tells him, "we don't need you to do that."  Zimmerman says "OK", and says that "he ran" (past tense) indicating why he had started to follow.  The phone call continues for another 1-1/2 minutes.  Either, Zimmerman was still following, and the dispatcher either believed him or wasn't overly concerned or he had stopped.

The neighborhood is townhouses with short driveways coming into garages, with essentially no front yards at all.  There are front sidewalks in some areas, but not in others.  On the back of the buildings is a grassy area with a sidewalk down the middle, and the townhouses have patios.  There are 6 or so units per building, with walk through between buildings.

This is where the fight and shooting occurred.  The 911 calls were from people looking out the back of their houses.

So we have two possibilities:

1. Zimmerman started the altercation in an attempt to restrain Martin until the police arrived, and then got his ass handed to him by a boy much smaller than him.

Martin was 6'0, Zimmerman 5'9.

But certainly this version is more plausible than Zimmerman chasing down Martin while talking to a dispatcher for 2 minutes.

2. Martin attacked Zimmerman. Why would he? Probably to defend himself, as the same law that Zimmerman is using to try to defend himself would allow him to do. If some strange man is pursuing you with apparently hostile intent, he would have reasonable cause for self-defense.

How far was he from the house that he was staying at?  He could have called his dad and told him someone was following him in a car.

3. Zimmerman was trying to see where Martin had gone, or had driven up to where he could see between buildings.  He got out of his car, and went looking.  Martin jumped him.

Either way, Zimmerman put himself into this situation through his own recklessness. He was instructed not to pursue, but not only did he do so anyways he left the safety of his vehicle to confront Martin. He is CLEARLY at fault.

When he was told that he didn't need to follow (not pursue), he acknowledged, and the dispatcher calmly talked him for another 1-1/2 minutes.  Either he had stopped, or the dispatcher didn't think it important enough to reiterate, or Zimmerman had duped the dispatcher.  BTW, the neighborhood is not very big, perhaps 1/4 mile on a side.

[Beet]

CaDan, I have not read your thread, but there a few points here.

1. I already pointed this out, in my original thread on this topic. I said, "Apparently there was a witness that said he saw Martin beating Zimmerman, backing up Zimmerman's story. But it has only been reported on "myfoxorlando." That was on the very first page of the thread. Everyone saw it. There wasn't a need for you to start a new thread.

2. It's not a "new witness" as you claim. It was reported the day after the incident, as the person you tried to correct, correctly stated. Nothing from your link is new at all, it is verbatim from the report of February 27.

3. The witness didn't see the beginning of the fight or who attacked first. It's inaccurate to say that the witness said Martin "attacked" Zimmerman (as Dibble points out). It's also inaccurate to say that the witness "saw the whole thing." Finally it's inaccurate for the article to claim "we haven't heard from before" w.r.t this witness (as I pointed out above). The original report is from My Fox Orlando. Obviously they are a lot more professional than My Fox Tampa Bay, who just did a copy & paste job and added three major inaccuracies in order to break a month-old story. Whoever wrote this story has no business being a reporter (although the original story does contain one inaccuracy; Zimmerman is 28, not 25).

[oakvale]

PCP might be a mite specific. I haven't ruled out black tar heroin.

No, it's either PCP or meth. Someone on black tar heroin wouldn't have the energy to post with as much bile as CADan does.

[asexual trans victimologist]

PCP might be a mite specific. I haven't ruled out black tar heroin.

No, it's either PCP or meth. Someone on black tar heroin wouldn't have the energy to post with as much bile as CADan does.

Meth makes sense. I'm honestly not terribly familiar with heroin addiction, which is a shame because my mom works with heroin addicts. Depresses her too much to really talk about it at home.

[oakvale]

PCP might be a mite specific. I haven't ruled out black tar heroin.

No, it's either PCP or meth. Someone on black tar heroin wouldn't have the energy to post with as much bile as CADan does.

Meth makes sense. I'm honestly not terribly familiar with heroin addiction, which is a shame because my mom works with heroin addicts. Depresses her too much to really talk about it at home.

Let's go with meth. PCP's too stereotypically "black" a drug for a racist like CADan to use, but meth withdrawal would probably give him the maddening, zombie-like rage he seems to post in.

[Invisible Obama]

I don't respond to the poster that started this, he is on ignore, but I had to chime in to say this thread should not have gotten to five pages. A lot of people like to go back and forth for entertainment value, when they should not engage in debate with someone obviously here to start trouble.

[shua]

Still no response as to why the media is showing 5 year old pictures of Martin rather than the current ones that were scrubbed from his facebook page?

what is this supposed to prove? That he put crappy pictures of himself up on facebook?  Nice job, sleuth.

[Former Moderate]

This thread is closed.