Are you serious Inks?

[Formerly Californian Tony]

Of course Mikado should resign as well. He's generally just as bad as Inks.

I feel like he's overplaying moderator solidarity. "We need to unite because if we don't those damn anarchists will exploit our divisions and turn the forum into a massive trollfest, so even though Inks has gone a bit too far in my view I'm still gonna defend him."

[The Mikado]

Of course Mikado should resign as well. He's generally just as bad as Inks.

I feel like he's overplaying moderator solidarity. "We need to unite because if we don't those damn anarchists will exploit our divisions and turn the forum into a massive trollfest, so even though Inks has gone a bit too far in my view I'm still gonna defend him."

Inks did run this by me beforehand via PM and I signed off on it.

[The Mikado]

If that's the case, why not close the thread in GenDisc. about the "hoodie" incident because it's just people calling CaDan a racist, even if it may be correct.

That thread is now closed and CADan is now CAbanned.

[Kuu ülevaade olulisematest]

Let's be honest; Mikado's just the good cop who presents a smiling face while Inks does the dirty work.

[Formerly Californian Tony]

Of course Mikado should resign as well. He's generally just as bad as Inks.

I feel like he's overplaying moderator solidarity. "We need to unite because if we don't those damn anarchists will exploit our divisions and turn the forum into a massive trollfest, so even though Inks has gone a bit too far in my view I'm still gonna defend him."

Inks did run this by me beforehand via PM and I signed off on it.

OK, I stand corrected.

It's quite unfortunate though. I don't understand what caused this shift in moderation policy, but I hope you have a clue of what you're doing. I feel honestly surprised by this recent attitude, as I though you (if not Inks, at least you) had enough experience of the FC board to understand the difference between offensive trolling and having some fun.

[Governor Scott]

I sure wish I could just do away with any thread that doesn't meet my standards.

[The Mikado]

Let's be honest; Mikado's just the good cop who presents a smiling face while Inks does the dirty work.

Amusingly enough, the original rationale for our pairing was that I'd be the bad cop and he'd be the good cop, but sometime over the last two years we've switched.

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

[Vasall des Midas]

Let's be honest; Mikado's just the good cop who presents a smiling face while Inks does the dirty work.

Amusingly enough, the original rationale for our pairing was that I'd be the bad cop and he'd be the good cop, but sometime over the last two years we've switched.

Isn't occasional role switching part of every good sane cop - insane cop routine?

[Governor Scott]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

[Gustaf]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

[Governor Scott]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

Let's be honest; Mikado's just the good cop who presents a smiling face while Inks does the dirty work.

No, he's playing the loyal sidekick, praising every action of his master.

[Insula Dei]

Somehow I doubt that what Dave wants this forum to be like is the sort of boring place on the internet where about half of the posts consist of whining about the moderation and the other half of people asking whether it'd be okay to post X. That's what this forum's current moderation policies seem to be heading towards, though.

[State Comptroller Atkins]

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

[Torie]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

When you put up in lights a post of a poster which you are characterizing as "absurd" or whatever, it certainly has the potential of hurting the feelings of the subject poster. I mean, if in a thread you said, hey Torie, your post is just absurd (!), without more, could that not be deemed a personal attack?

Whatever your views of the merits of the thread, it strikes me as certainly reasonable to deem that as one of its liabilities on its overall balance sheet. Then it is a matter of deeming just how much of import that liability is. In the end, all of this stuff involves judgment calls at the margin. From afar, one might deem the appropriate approach obvious, but inside the ring, with all the constituencies to please, Dave's expectations, the collateral damage to those from whom blood is drawn, and so forth, I suspect sometimes the answers are not all that obvious.

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

One has to consider now if classic forum traditions like use of words like "poors" and "dumbs" and Freedom Fighter vs. Horrible Person would be infracted as "trolling" if they started today.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

People who beg for years to become mods are never good mods. Fact.

[Paul Kemp]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

And that won't occur in the Goldmine or "ohhh snap" threads? Give me a break.

I guess now whenever I find an ignorant or absurd post, I'll just have to put it in the Goldmine since it's OK there.

If you can't take the heat, GTFO.

[Grumps]

A mistake, Nathan.

[Pacific Councillor Big Wiggly Style]

(Boston accent)

This whole [Inks]in' thing is just a loada' [Inks]in' GAHBAGE.

[Torie]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

And that won't occur in the Goldmine or "ohhh snap" threads? Give me a break.

I guess now whenever I find an ignorant or absurd post, I'll just have to put it in the Goldmine since it's OK there.

If you can't take the heat, GTFO.

Sure.  But I don't think it "absurd," to deem a post as stupid or absurd, as of somewhat more gravity, than to characterize it as funny, or a clever towel snap. It is just a matter of degree.  But sure, you have a point. Hopefully, the way to square the circle will not be to freeze those threads too. One might wish here in other words to distinguish rather than conflate. Just a thought.

[Torie]

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

One has to consider now if classic forum traditions like use of words like "poors" and "dumbs" and Freedom Fighter vs. Horrible Person would be infracted as "trolling" if they started today.

Agree about the HP thing, with which I was never comfortable when it pertains to a poster (as opposed to a public figure), but what on earth is remotely offensive about opebo's charmingly incorrect grammar?

[Governor Scott]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

When you put up in lights a post of a poster which you are characterizing as "absurd" or whatever, it certainly has the potential of hurting the feelings of the subject poster. I mean, if in a thread you said, hey Torie, your post is just absurd (!), without more, could that not be deemed a personal attack?

Whatever your views of the merits of the thread, it strikes me as certainly reasonable to deem that as one of its liabilities on its overall balance sheet. Then it is a matter of deeming just how much of import that liability is. In the end, all of this stuff involves judgment calls at the margin. From afar, one might deem the appropriate approach obvious, but inside the ring, with all the constituencies to please, Dave's expectations, the collateral damage to those from whom blood is drawn, and so forth, I suspect sometimes the answers are not all that obvious.

It's not necessarily a personal attack, but an attack on the alleged absurdity in general.  Of course people are free to disagree with certain posts being quoted in that thread, but as I said, it is merely an expression of opinion.  And if the author of the comment being quoted doesn't agree that their post belongs in there, they are welcome to object to it or ignore the thread entirely.  As long as someone is not openly bashing one another, I don't see what's very damaging about quoting a post, especially since this is a board where we deem users as "horrible people" through means of showing disapproval.  And by closing that thread, people are being censored of that particular way to object to something.  The definition of "personal attack" is stretched far too much to the point that we are discouraging criticism.