Attn Dave: Some things the ENTIRE posting community needs to know

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Apparently Nym already has the power so the ex poste facto issue is moot (and that was never my intent anyway). I think it useful however that it be more widely known that Nym has such power, and that just cruising along at 40 infraction points or whatever gaming the system does not constitute some safe harbor

everything in your closing argument is true...however, you do realize, that since there is a 90 day expiration period on death points, the poster cruising along at a steady 40 death points, is only accumulating death points at a rate of 0.44 death points per day...which hardly justifies a death sentence.

Which is exactly why the infraction system is pointless and...from a jurisprudence point of view...an unjustifiable waste of time for all involved parties.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Apparently Nym already has the power so the ex poste facto issue is moot (and that was never my intent anyway). I think it useful however that it be more widely known that Nym has such power, and that just cruising along at 40 infraction points or whatever gaming the system does not constitute some safe harbor

everything in your closing argument is true...however, you do realize, that since there is a 90 day expiration period on death points, the poster cruising along at a steady 40 death points, is only accumulating death points at a rate of 0.44 death points per day...which hardly justifies a death sentence.

Which is exactly why the infraction system is pointless and...from a jurisprudence point of view...an unjustifiable waste of time for all involved parties.

Most users never accumulate close to 40 infraction points in a year.  If you're getting close to half a point a day, there's something wrong with your posting style/attitude.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Most users never accumulate close to 40 infraction points in a year.  If you're getting close to half a point a day, there's something wrong with your posting style/attitude.

my attitude?  look, if I were accumulating a lot of death points on one of the election boards, that would be one thing...but when the vast majority are occuring on the FC Board, then maybe there's something particular about that board that is not functioning as intended

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Most users never accumulate close to 40 infraction points in a year.  If you're getting close to half a point a day, there's something wrong with your posting style/attitude.

my attitude?  look, if I were accumulating a lot of death points on one of the election boards, that would be one thing...but when the vast majority are occuring on the FC Board, then maybe there's something particular about that board that is not functioning as intended

That's not true.  The majority of your points have not come from the FC board, and the majority of your posts don't come from the FC board either.  In fact, your points from the FC board aren't even a plurality of your points, and your infracted posts on FC aren't a plurality of your infracted posts.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Most users never accumulate close to 40 infraction points in a year.  If you're getting close to half a point a day, there's something wrong with your posting style/attitude.

my attitude?  look, if I were accumulating a lot of death points on one of the election boards, that would be one thing...but when the vast majority are occuring on the FC Board, then maybe there's something particular about that board that is not functioning as intended

That's not true.  The majority of your points have not come from the FC board, and the majority of your posts don't come from the FC board either.  In fact, your points from the FC board aren't even a plurality of your points, and your infracted posts on FC aren't a plurality of your infracted posts.

Inks, I don’t know where you get your numbers from, but my current death points break down accordingly:

Forum Community – 60% (all humorous)
Atlas board – 22% (mostly due to humor involving Derek)
US General Discussion – 13% (single infraction due to Mod misinterpreting my “mob” definition)
2012 Elect board – 5% (single infraction for joke using a movie reference)

Basically, my humor is not warmly welcomed on the FC board…but that is one of the main purposes of that board.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Well the discussion we were having was about people who hover at point levels, not just looking at what points they have at the current moment, so I looked at all your infraction points.

Now, this may not be perfect, since I had to go through the points manually, but you have 85 posts which have had action taken on them.  I recall seeing at least 2 which had action taken but no points given.  I found 80 posts of yours with points (with a total of 281 points), so if I missed any, it was no more than 3 posts:

Board   Points   Posts   Points %   Posts %
The Atlas   66   22   23.49%   27.50%
Forum Community   65   17   23.13%   21.25%
International General Discussion   37   9   13.17%   11.25%
U.S. General Discussion   36   9   12.81%   11.25%
2012 U.S. Presidential Election   35   9   12.46%   11.25%
Religion & Philosophy   17   4   6.05%   5.00%
Congressional Elections   15   5   5.34%   6.25%
Off Topic   7   4   2.49%   5.00%
2010 Senatorial Election Polls   3   1   1.07%   1.25%

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

thanks for proving my point for me - half the trouble the Mods have had are due to infractions incurred out of humor on the FC board and the spillover disagreements those FC infractions have caused on the Atlas board.

if the Mods would allow us posters a little more slack to joke around and roughhouse on a single board (FC), half the problem of Moderating this forum would instantly go away.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Wrong again.  Most of the infractions you've received on this board don't stem from FC issues.  Many of them came from the whole Afleitch incident (over a third of them), and a few others came from Dave shortly after the implimentation of the infraction system.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Wrong again.  Most of the infractions you've received on this board don't stem from FC issues.  Many of them came from the whole Afleitch incident (over a third of them), and a few others came from Dave shortly after the implimentation of the infraction system.

The points you're referring to in regard to that incident are when I purposely took my point total to 100.

And I have toned down the joking on the serious boards.  But, if you haven't noticed, most of posters' recent complaints about the infraction system are due infractions incurred on the FC Board.

Look, I have made it known on the petition thread I don’t want you removed from the Mod team.  And I know you’ve been my ally in the past.  So, my argument isn’t personal, rather it’s philosophical.  My opinion is that the current philosophy of how the TOS applies to the FC board is sucking the fun out of the forum for many posters.

Moderation of the FC board should be passive, but it seems the Mod team is constantly messing with that board more than any other board, whether it be shutting down BushOK’s Update thread, talking about banning FF/HP threads, or locking the Deluge thread.  And I want you to note that I rarely, if ever, frequent those threads, so I have no personal interest in them…BUT, they serve as examples where the Mod team made issues out of non-issues.

It’s just like your question to Naso about creating one thread for all this video satires.  Even though I can’t bring myself to watch them, his threads weren’t cluttering up that board as the older threads fall off the first page before he has time to create another.  If you, a Mod, had forced them into one thread, Naso’s fans would not easily be able to tell when a new video is available, so having separate threads DOES serve a purpose for Naso and fans (if any) of his videos….the fact that you were even considering placing them in a single thread causes me to think you were bothered by them, but that is NOT your role as Moderator.  The FC Board exists for the entertainment of Forum members, it shouldn’t matter if the Mods of that board are interested in the content of the topics.  If you want to unclutter the FC board, get rid of most of the treads that are stickied.

That may seem to be nitpicking, but I think it does go to the heart of the matter – there is current Mod mindset that the FC board needs proactive moderation, when what it really needs is passive moderation (if there is no pressing problem, don’t attempt to fix it).

[© Tweed the Younger]

perhaps an answer here would be to have a very lightly moderated 'free speech zone' which is visible only to members and is not Google indexed.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

here is another perfect example, posted today:

I'm sorry, but why did people throw a fit about this thread being locked when posts here just keep getting crossposted in the goldmine and vice versa?

We love you, Inks.  And I mean that, sincerely.  But being a proactive librarian is not the best role for a Mod on the FC board.   

If you keep this up, we're going to ask Dave if you can sort his crayons for him. (that was a joke, I’m sure Dave always keeps his crayons sorted in ways I can’t even fathom)

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

First, we've never considered shutting down FF/HP polls.  At least I know I haven't, and I can't think of a time Mikado said he was considering it.

As to Naso's thread - I was simply asking, because I figured it'd make it easier for him.  I knew that they weren't cluttering up the board before you pointed out we didn't have 2 on the front page.  If he would've said "No" to my inquiry, that would've been the end to the issue.

As to the reason why people complain about their infractions on the FC board - that's where most of the trolling occurs.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

As to the reason why people complain about their infractions on the FC board - that's where most of the trolling occurs.

Exactly!  That's one of the main purposes of that board - to troll:  attention whoring, poking, prodding, comparing jocks, etc, etc, etc.

[opebo]

Oh good lord, the one time he appears its to 'talk to' jmfcst of all people.  I suppose that's appropriate - this last happened to you about 1994 or something wasn't it jmfcst?

[Former Moderate]

Oh good lord, the one time he appears its to 'talk to' jmfcst of all people.  I suppose that's appropriate - this last happened to you about 1994 or something wasn't it jmfcst?

I'm sorry, but that's just plain funny. First time I've enjoyed an opebo post in years.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

As to the reason why people complain about their infractions on the FC board - that's where most of the trolling occurs.

Exactly!  That's one of the main purposes of that board - to troll:  attention whoring, poking, prodding, comparing jocks, etc, etc, etc.

Well Dave doesn't want trolling to be allowed.  That's something you need to take up with him.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Oh good lord, the one time he appears its to 'talk to' jmfcst of all people.  I suppose that's appropriate - this last happened to you about 1994 or something wasn't it jmfcst?

Long ago or yesterday...never has Dave left me, never will he forsake me.  So I say with confidence, "He is my helper; I will not be afraid.  What can men do to me?”

[Badger]

Hi,
None of the following is anything new: I have always wanted for this site to be a place where many people of differing opinions could discuss politics and elections - without anyone getting personally attacked over their point-of-view.  I want it to be fun, entertaining, educational, maybe even some people will even change their minds after a good discussion.  I have no problem with clever wit and even some jabs - assuming that both parties consider the exchange fun.  One issue with the written word is that tone and spoken inflection can often be missed by a third party reading the posts - so for some comments that could be interpreted as literal, I recommend adding some form of indication that it is not. If you believe that the mods are being a bit too zealous, please pm me some examples and I'll have a look.

Is the problem with the infraction system itself or how it is being applied?

Thanks,
Dave

Hi Dave.  

First I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your fantastic site, and your generosity in both creating and tolerating the forum. It has greatly enriched my life, and I mean that.

Here is the Achilles heel, or at least one of them, in the infraction system, and it is not hypothetical, but real, because it has happened, and is happening. There are some, very few, but some, who deliberately flaunt the rules of engagement around here, and personally insult other posters, but nevertheless are careful to do it in sufficient moderation that they keep their point count down below the muzzlement/termination zone. As points expire, they add new ones, sort of like a bathtub, where the water drains in at about the same rate as it drains out, but it is typically in a state just short of overflowing.  

For this sort of Machiavellian character, there is no adequate remedy. There needs to be some sort of sanction for those whose tub is  near overflowing as the norm.  For the chronic and "un-rehabilitatable" poster, who with malice aforethought is gaming the system, and the rules of engagement in this way, at some point enough is enough.  Perhaps Nym in whom you repose confidence should have the power, maybe after a warning, and maybe not, to effect a final separation of such poster from the rest of us.

Thank you again.

Best, Steve