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| | |-+  The first election in which the D was left-wing and the R was right-wing
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Author Topic: The first election in which the D was left-wing and the R was right-wing  (Read 3068 times)
Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2014, 03:01:54 pm »
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I'm surprised nobody has suggested 1872 (although 1896 was the turning point between when it was an exception and the norm)

Why 1872?  Can Tilden be called left-wing, even in relation to Hayes?
We are talking in relation to the gold standard, Grant was conservative on it, Tilden was liberal on it.

I'm pretty sure Tilden was a "Bourbon" and both Hayes and Tilden were in favor of sound money. There were in fact very few differences between the candidates.
Oops, I meant the 1872 liberal Republican candidate, sorry.
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« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2014, 05:52:16 pm »
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1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, and 1984 are all contenders.
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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2014, 09:06:21 pm »
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1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2014, 09:36:03 pm »
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1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

Ugh. . . . . . Al Smith?
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« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2014, 01:41:17 am »
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Who was the Democrat in 1872?
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« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2014, 11:26:38 am »
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By the standards of the time in each election, I'd say 1896.  By today's standards, I'm not so sure.
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« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2014, 12:32:25 pm »
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Who was the Democrat in 1872?
Horace Greeley ran under both the Democratic and Liberal Republican banner in the 1872 election. Interestingly, he died shortly after the election.
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« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2014, 04:15:37 pm »
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1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

Ugh. . . . . . Al Smith?
Well he's an exception to that rule.
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« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2014, 03:09:46 pm »
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1872 was the first election when the Democrats were more left-wing on economics. After 1896 an economically right-wing Democrat became the exception rather than the rule.

Although I'd say on social issues the Democrats were not more liberal until the 1950's.

The Republicans have always had a puritan streak of sorts, and the whole Bryan episode was much more a fluke than an overall indicator of where the Democratic party stood. Now, you can argue whether that puritan streak was a force for conservatism or progressivism, but it was there.
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« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2014, 06:55:23 am »
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The Puritan streak was a force for both at the same time. Prohibition was considered "Progressive".

I disagree on the Bryan episode though. It changed the Party, his efforts brought Wilson to the nomination.

You must remember that many of the 1920's nominees were last minutes selections after heated battles between South and West versus North and Midwest, Progressive versus Bourbon, dry versus wet and Pro-KKK versus Anti-KKK. So one should hardly use them as representative of the party.
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« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2014, 01:35:40 pm »
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I'd say 1972.
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« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2014, 01:46:38 am »
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I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?
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« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2014, 02:53:25 am »
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These terms were not really used on a regular basis until the Cold War.
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« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2014, 05:31:22 pm »
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I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?

In the US: Liberal = Left-wing

Outside the US: Liberal = Right-wing, pro free-market
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« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2014, 08:21:13 am »
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1896
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« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2014, 07:01:26 pm »
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This will upset those living in liberal fantasy land, but on fiscal issues it was 1856.  Period.  The GOP has always been a pro-business party, and I honestly find it 100% revisionist and biased to call defending slavery (as Southern Democrats did) socially conservative and trying to tie that to conservatism of today, while also completely ignoring that some of the fiercest abolitionists were from devoutly conservative Christian denominations like the Quakers.  The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today) did a heck of a lot more to advance anti-slavery sentiment than this revisionist notion that the charge was led by these intellectual progressives of the day.  When you throw in that the other main group that opposed slavery was the Northern business community, which argued it interfered with the ideal of a free market with free labor, it doesn't sound liberal or left wing at all to me ... I guess if you repeat something loud enough and often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.
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« Reply #66 on: Today at 02:19:56 am »
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I am pretty sure it is a myth that Republicans were Liberal.Plus hasn't the definition of the word Liberal changed in the last 200 years?

In the US: Liberal = Left-wing

Outside the US: Liberal = Right-wing, pro free-market

Yeah in Australia our right-wing party is called the Liberal Party and the word "liberal" is used either in reference to the party or to classical liberalism.
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« Reply #67 on: Today at 07:52:57 am »
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It's very hard to say
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« Reply #68 on: Today at 12:30:25 pm »
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This will upset those living in liberal fantasy land, but on fiscal issues it was 1856.  Period.  The GOP has always been a pro-business party, and I honestly find it 100% revisionist and biased to call defending slavery (as Southern Democrats did) socially conservative and trying to tie that to conservatism of today, while also completely ignoring that some of the fiercest abolitionists were from devoutly conservative Christian denominations like the Quakers.  The Second Great Awakening and the explosion of moralism that followed (something Democrats still mock Republicans for today) did a heck of a lot more to advance anti-slavery sentiment than this revisionist notion that the charge was led by these intellectual progressives of the day.  When you throw in that the other main group that opposed slavery was the Northern business community, which argued it interfered with the ideal of a free market with free labor, it doesn't sound liberal or left wing at all to me ... I guess if you repeat something loud enough and often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.

There's some degree of truth to this, however, the Republican Party in the mid-19th century was composed of numerous factions. Some of them favoring a "small" government and an agrarian based economy. They were against a central bank, tariffs, and hell even a national currency. These were called the liberal Republicans and contained a lot of ex-Democrats. The other wing consisted of ex-Whigs who favored a central bank, corporate welfare and protectionism through tariffs.

You're correct in saying the Republican Party was always the party of big business (and those weren't often formed splinter groups such as Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party La Follette's progressives) and  because the Democratic base for much of the 19th century were farmers and later a coalition of rural farmers and urban labor machines. Hardly the people you'd expect to support a party of big business. You're also correct in saying that people's religious beliefs via the Second Great Awakening were a main driving force behind the abolition movement.

For some local context, one of the reasons Rhode Island was such a bastion of the Republican Party in the 19th and early 20th century was due to it being a very wealthy industrialized state with numerous corporations in Providence.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:33:21 pm by NerdyBohemian »Logged

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