Home
2012
Election Results
Election Info
Weblog
Wiki
Search
Email
Site Info
Store
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
May 23, 2013, 09:35:16 pm
News:
Cast your ballot in the 2012 Mock Election!
Atlas Forum
Questions and Answers
Presidential Election Process
What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
Author
Topic: What if in a Presidential election (2).......... (Read 1489 times)
LINCOLN REPUBLICAN
Winfield
YaBB God
Posts: 9835
What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
on:
March 30, 2012, 12:40:01 am »
The Republican and the Democrat have a tie in the Electoral College 269/269.
All the electors remain faithful and cast their electoral vote as their state voted.
The election of course goes to the House.
The House votes 25 state delegations for the Republican and 25 state delegations for the Democrat.
How is the tie in the House broken or what is the next step?
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
YaBB God
Posts: 29155
Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #1 on:
March 30, 2012, 01:05:58 am »
Probably some states would be a tie.
If the Democrats due well enough in the Congressional elections that they have the majority of 25 states, Obama will be re-elected with 270+ electoral votes, so this isn't happening. A 269-269 tie would favor Romney, but if people are going to be pissed if we have case number 5 of a Democrat winning the popular vote but not becoming President.
Anyways, much more likely than an electoral party tie is what happened in 1824, where no one got a majority. Could have happened in 1968 if Agnew hadn't sabotaged the peace talks. There's also the 1800 election, but that's irrelevant since it was pre-12 amendment. Or some random faithless electors could cause another 1836.
«
Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 01:12:15 am by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
»
Logged
Nagas
YaBB God
Posts: 1499
Political Matrix
E: -2.45, S: -6.61
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #2 on:
March 30, 2012, 03:00:19 am »
The parties would likely broker some sort of deal, such as one party gains the Presidency and the other a major piece of legislation, or go with the popular vote winner.
Logged
My Timeline: Paradigm Shift
American Gold
Mr. Morden
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 14744
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #3 on:
March 30, 2012, 07:43:20 am »
If the Electoral College deadlocks and the House deadlocks as well, then doesn't whoever the Senate picked as VP become acting president unless and until the House resolves the deadlock?
Logged
What is your opinion of this thread?
Watch this video of Dave being briefed by the mods.
Quote from: Lunar on March 20, 2011, 10:58:04 am
Being a moderator is basically like one giant party. Except you're the one ruining the party and everyone hates you.
Yelnoc
YaBB God
Posts: 6565
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #4 on:
March 30, 2012, 06:59:12 pm »
Quote from: Santorum: I will vote for Obama if I'm not the nominee. on March 30, 2012, 12:40:01 am
The Republican and the Democrat have a tie in the Electoral College 269/269.
All the electors remain faithful and cast their electoral vote as their state voted.
The election of course goes to the House.
The House votes 25 state delegations for the Republican and 25 state delegations for the Democrat.
How is the tie in the House broken or what is the next step?
First of all, many states will split. When they split, they will be marked as "undecided", so the house does not need to break evenly along state lines. As Mr. Morden points out, the running mate selected Vice President by the Senate will become Acting President until such a time as the House appoints one of the candidates President. As jfern said, that would likely involve some kind of shady deal; think 1876.
Logged
Goodbye
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 21554
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #5 on:
March 30, 2012, 08:38:49 pm »
Quote from: Santorum: I will vote for Obama if I'm not the nominee. on March 30, 2012, 12:40:01 am
The Republican and the Democrat have a tie in the Electoral College 269/269.
All the electors remain faithful and cast their electoral vote as their state voted.
The election of course goes to the House.
The House votes 25 state delegations for the Republican and 25 state delegations for the Democrat.
How is the tie in the House broken or what is the next step?
The precedent is well established. Until and unless 26 States vote in favor of one or the other (or possibly one of the three if a faithless elector voted for someone else to be President than he was supposed to) there is no President.
Over in the Senate, they'll need 51 Senators to chose who will be Vice-President and thus Acting President until the House chooses a President. And I do mean 51 Senators, not 50 plus a VP. The VP does not get to break this tie, and even if not all 100 Senators show up to vote, it still takes 51 to elect.
If neither a President or a Vice-President is chosen then under current succession law, whoever is Speaker on noon, January 20, becomes Acting President until one of the two elections is settled. (Assuming the Speaker is eligible, if not then it continues down the list until someone eligible is found.)
Logged
“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
Clinton Lee Scott
Read
Fat Man on a Diet
, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 21554
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #6 on:
March 30, 2012, 08:49:16 pm »
Incidentally, there is a chance for shenanigans in the Senate. Unless a quorum of two-thirds of the Senators shows up, they can't vote for a Vice President. So if the party that loses the popular vote wins a Senate majority, it is possible for the Senate minority to block his election by not showing up.
Much more difficult to pull that off in the House, since if even a single member from a State delegate shows up, he could cast that State's vote, so to pull a House boycott, a party would have to have the entirety of 17 delegations and yet have the other party control 26.
Logged
“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
Clinton Lee Scott
Read
Fat Man on a Diet
, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
LINCOLN REPUBLICAN
Winfield
YaBB God
Posts: 9835
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #7 on:
March 30, 2012, 09:48:30 pm »
These answers are great.
Very knowledgeable and informative.
Logged
Mr. Morden
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 14744
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #8 on:
March 30, 2012, 10:16:08 pm »
If the House Speaker and/or President pro temp don't actually want to serve as acting president, can they refuse? Or is the Speaker automatically acting president, as long as he's Speaker of the House and the pres. and VP slots are vacant?
In the modern era, isn't there a good chance that the House and Senate *wouldn't* resolve an electoral college deadlock, as the voters view the presidency as the most important office by far, and wouldn't look kindly on members of Congress of the party they support trading the presidency away for anything?
If, say, you had a situation in which Obama/Biden went up against Romney/Rubio in 2012, and there's an electoral college tie, and the House deadlocks, but the Senate picks either Biden or Rubio for VP (depending on which party has a majority), might we really just end up with Acting President Biden or Rubio for two years, at which point the 2014 midterms would determine whether the House can actually resolve the 2012 presidential election, and elect either Obama or Romney to the remainder of the term?
EDIT: Actually, that's not a bad what-if scenario, if anyone wants to write a timeline for it.
Logged
What is your opinion of this thread?
Watch this video of Dave being briefed by the mods.
Quote from: Lunar on March 20, 2011, 10:58:04 am
Being a moderator is basically like one giant party. Except you're the one ruining the party and everyone hates you.
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 21554
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #9 on:
March 31, 2012, 12:54:27 am »
It would be more likely that the majority party in the House in such a situation would "temporarily" select a Speaker for just January 20 for the purpose of becoming Acting President and then the old Speaker would resume the Speakership. The way the law is written, the Speaker (or the PPT) would have to give up their Congressional seat to become President, even if it just to be Acting President. However, if both the Speaker and the PPT were to refuse to resign, possibly then the succession would fall to the Cabinet. However, any election likely to put Pelosi back in as Speaker would see Obama easily reelected. So I'd say it's a sure bet that if we do get an electoral deadlock, the Republicans will find someone willing to give up their House seat to become Acting President.
(Note that a deadlocked Senate almost certainly means Inouye would remain PPT, as Biden would be able to break a tie on that vote when the 113th Senate organizes. You'd need a 50-49 Republican Senate with one vacancy to get a Republican PPT and a Senate deadlocked over selecting a VP.)
Logged
“Always it is easier to pay homage to prophets than to heed the direction of their vision.”
Clinton Lee Scott
Read
Fat Man on a Diet
, an alternate history in which the history of atomic weapons does not go as it did in our timeline.
Mr. Morden
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 14744
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #10 on:
March 31, 2012, 03:11:17 am »
Isn't it true that the House can legally elect a non-member of Congress as Speaker? So then, in an Obama/Romney deadlock, if the GOP still had a majority of members, but not a majority of state delegations, they could just elect Romney Speaker of the House, which then makes him acting prez. if both the House and Senate are deadlocked on who president and VP are to be.
Logged
What is your opinion of this thread?
Watch this video of Dave being briefed by the mods.
Quote from: Lunar on March 20, 2011, 10:58:04 am
Being a moderator is basically like one giant party. Except you're the one ruining the party and everyone hates you.
IDS Legislator Alfred F. Jones
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
Posts: 5533
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #11 on:
March 31, 2012, 03:06:29 pm »
There would be all kinds of lawsuits if that were to happen.
Logged
Quote from: Grumpss on October 22, 2012, 12:05:53 pm
[Alfred]
is
Jesus.
Quote from: HagridOfTheDeep on August 01, 2012, 06:47:37 pm
I know you're reasonable, Alfred.
Quote from: Torie on May 08, 2013, 07:02:43 pm
Most of the forumites ... have the potential to make good bed companions
Californian Tony
Antonio V
YaBB God
Posts: 24679
Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #12 on:
March 31, 2012, 03:47:24 pm »
I guess they revote until one of them gets more votes.
If voting is still ongoing by Inauguration Day, well, the Vice President acts as President (and if the same thing happens to him, the Speaker of the House, and so on).
Logged
Truer today than it was yesterday.
"A good portion of this country has created an alternate universe. I call this place were these folks live Bullsh*t Mountain. The denizens of Bullsh*t Mountain believe many things: they believe that a Kenyan Muslim President has fundamentally changed the relationship between government and the people of this country."
Jon Stewart
Vosem
YaBB God
Posts: 3807
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #13 on:
April 02, 2012, 07:17:03 pm »
Quote from: Mr. Morden on March 30, 2012, 10:16:08 pm
EDIT: Actually, that's not a bad what-if scenario, if anyone wants to write a timeline for it.
A timeline based on that very scenario occurring in 1972 exists on alternatehistory.com called
Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72
, written by a user named Drew. Butterflies eventually envelop the whole word; there's more than 60 pages of material, and he's still on 1979. I strongly encourage you to check it out; one of the most detailed what-if timelines I have ever read.
Logged
Quote from: Big Wiggly Style on April 13, 2013, 08:47:37 am
oh Vosem, you poor boy...
Quote from: Vosem on January 12, 2013, 05:05:23 pm
Economic score: +4.84
Social score: -6.52
At this rate, I'll lean left economically within a year or so
Lemon flavoured
Newbie
Posts: 9
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #14 on:
April 24, 2012, 12:46:34 pm »
Quote from: Alfred F. Jones on March 31, 2012, 03:06:29 pm
There would be all kinds of lawsuits if that were to happen.
There would be, but would they succeed? As was said, the house can elect anyone to be speaker, so it isn't actually against the rules (it's probably pushing the intent of them a very long way though...), and I'm guessing the court would rule that.
Logged
ask_not
donavan_ed
Full Member
Posts: 114
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #15 on:
August 02, 2012, 06:14:45 pm »
Quote from: Nagas on March 30, 2012, 03:00:19 am
The parties would likely broker some sort of deal, such as one party gains the Presidency and the other a major piece of legislation, or go with the popular vote winner.
am curious what it be like if that happens
Logged
J. J.
YaBB God
Posts: 31872
Re: What if in a Presidential election (2)..........
«
Reply #16 on:
September 03, 2012, 11:22:52 pm »
Quote from: Mr. Morden on March 31, 2012, 03:11:17 am
Isn't it true that the House can legally elect a non-member of Congress as Speaker? So then, in an Obama/Romney deadlock, if the GOP still had a majority of members, but not a majority of state delegations, they could just elect Romney Speaker of the House, which then makes him acting prez. if both the House and Senate are deadlocked on who president and VP are to be.
Very true.
Logged
J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Pages:
[
1
]
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results
=> Presidential Election Trends
=> Election What-ifs?
===> Past Election What-ifs (US)
===> Alternative Elections
===> International What-ifs
-----------------------------
Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections
===> 2013 & Odd Year Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> Congressional Elections
===> 2014 Senatorial Election Polls
=> International Elections
=> Election Predictions
-----------------------------
Questions and Answers
-----------------------------
=> Presidential Election Process
===> Electoral Reform
===> Polling
=> The Atlas
===> How To
-----------------------------
General Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Constitution and Law
=> Religion & Philosophy
=> History
===> Alternative History
-----------------------------
General Politics
-----------------------------
=> U.S. General Discussion
=> Political Geography & Demographics
=> International General Discussion
=> Economics
=> Individual Politics
=> Political Debate
===> Political Essays & Deliberation
===> Book Reviews and Discussion
-----------------------------
Election Archive
-----------------------------
=> 2012 Elections
===> 2012 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2012 House Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2012 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2010 Elections
===> 2010 House Election Polls
===> 2010 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2010 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2008 Elections
===> 2008 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Polls
=> 2006 Elections
===> 2006 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2006 Gubernatorial Election Polls
-----------------------------
Forum Community
-----------------------------
=> Forum Community
===> Forum Community Election Match-ups
=> Election and History Games
===> Mock Parliment
===> Town Hall
===> Survivor
===> Interactive Timelines
=> Off-topic Board
-----------------------------
Atlas Fantasy Elections
-----------------------------
=> Atlas Fantasy Elections
===> Voting Booth
=> Atlas Fantasy Government
===> Constitutional Convention
===> Regional Governments
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Powered by SMF 1.1.18
|
SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Loading...