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| | |-+  New England liberals vs Pacific liberals
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Author Topic: New England liberals vs Pacific liberals  (Read 3054 times)
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FallenMorgan
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« on: April 02, 2012, 02:08:47 pm »
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Is it just me, or are liberals in New England sort of conservative compared to liberals on the Pacific coast?

While New England has near-universally legalized same-sex marriage, and has elected people like Barney Frank, I get the impression that despite all this, New England is sort of more traditional and such, leaving the Pacific coast to have a higher concentration of major progressives.

Vermont is the only place that seems similar to the Pacific, in terms of the nature of it's left.

Or am I just rambling insanities?
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 03:35:30 pm »
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Putting aside political affiliation, I think New Englanders are more traditionalist by a lot of metrics than Pacific Coast people.  I actually have a collection of maps to this effect somewhere...they're pretty legit.
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 03:37:55 pm »
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Marijuana will be way slower to be accepted in New England than the left coast.

General hippieness is less appreciated in the East.

Being gay doesn't have to do with being a hippie.
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 10:15:28 pm »
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"New England liberals" are anything but monolithic. New Hampshire liberals are practically soft libertarians (so are the Republicans)--look at their governor (though a few are more populist-leaning). Massachusetts liberals are divided between the Ivy League social liberals and working-class Irish & Italians, which are stronger in Rhode Island. Connecticut liberals are much like Scott and Napoleon--economically centrist and socially liberal. Vermont liberals are either greenies or rural populists, while Maine liberals are a combination of Massachusetts and Vermont liberals depending on what part of Maine you're in.
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 10:18:43 pm »
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Vermont is very much traditional. And I don't think tradition has as much to do with politics as the Republicans would like us to think. The culture of the Northeast is very much traditional and there are many political philosophies sprouting from that.
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 10:26:01 pm »
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Well there's definitely a difference between New England and Pacific Coast rural areas/Republicans.

The righties here are very reactionary
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 10:33:30 pm »
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It depends on the Pacific conservatives. Eastern Oregon was, according to one study, the most conservative area in the country. However, the closer you get to the coast (especially in California), the more Republicans you see who are somewhere between Mitt Romney and Gary Johnson on the issues.
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 10:44:14 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 10:48:08 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 10:53:09 pm »
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There's not as much polarization in New  England and the East Coast along ideological lines as there is on the West Coast. Part of it might have to do with the fact that the West Coast has lots of people who don't have a shared history together living in the same general area, in contrast to the East Coast. Another part of it is that people who were more idealistic (some would say foolish Tongue) than the norm made their way out West, and consequently, created a more dynamic ideological culture out there. Perhaps the fact that the West is much younger as a region of major metropolitan development than the East also has a lot to do with it.
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 11:10:12 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

Not so sure about that, you would have to beat Washington which is probably at about 50/50 odds for legalizing this year.
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 11:10:24 pm »
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For reference, states that have decriminalized marijuana:

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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 11:16:53 pm »
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The medical marijuana bill may finally pass here but it is very restrictive...

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Connecticut voters support 68 - 27 percent a proposal to allow adults to use marijuana for medical purposes, with a physician's prescription, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. There is no gender, partisan, income, age or education group opposed.

By a smaller 54 - 42 percent margin, voters want liquor stores to sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. There are gender and partisan differences: Men support Sunday sales 60 - 37 percent while women are divided 48 - 48 percent. Support is 56 - 41 percent among Democrats and 57 - 40 percent among independent voters, while Republicans split 47 - 48 percent.

Connecticut voters oppose 63 - 35 percent allowing convenience stores at gas stations to sell beer. There is no group in favor of this idea.
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 11:22:07 pm »
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Vermont has a much more rural and agrarian and (formerly and in certain quarters even now) traditionalist character to its liberalism than comparable areas on the Pacific coast. There are still some puritanical cultural attributes, which is also the case in much of Massachusetts outside the Boston area. This doesn't necessary have anything to do with positions on 'social issues' but it's clear in the way politics is often done and the kind of rhetoric and priorities that are usually made and employed.
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 11:22:07 pm »
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Being gay doesn't have to do with being a hippie.

Just like being homosexual doesn't have anything to do with being GAY.
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 12:37:34 am »
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Vermont has the most progressive tax structure of any state.
Washington has the least progressive tax structure of any state.
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 01:06:08 am »
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Putting aside political affiliation, I think New Englanders are more traditionalist by a lot of metrics than Pacific Coast people.  I actually have a collection of maps to this effect somewhere...they're pretty legit.

I remember those maps! This is what matters and determines how politics is colored in the west. At the local level, it wouldn't be considered controversial for politicians to be known pot smokers in some western cities, atheism is fairly normal (at the local level) and rhetoric is much more "green".
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 01:47:09 am »
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I'd say they're more socially liberal on the West Coast, and maybe more economically leftist in New England. The West Coast also has more of an environmentalist bent.
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 02:13:47 am »
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I can't really put my finger on why, but I certainly enjoy left coast liberal (lefty, whatever you people want to be called this week) more than NE liberal.  Part of it is probably the subtle racism I sense from many a NE liberal.  They also seem more apt to accept political hypocrisy and corruption as a necessary evil than left coast liberal.
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 07:06:05 am »
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At least the West Coast don't have such ridiculous blue laws.
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 02:36:04 pm »
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We can still take pride in the fact that we're not the coast that came up with the Californian ideology.
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 03:16:03 pm »
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I don't know much, but I have the feeling that West Coast lefties, while more socially liberal, are pretty moderate when it comes to economic issues. Or at least, that the consensus there is more favorable to low taxes.

Which is why my preference goes without saying.
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 03:33:37 pm »
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The medical marijuana bill may finally pass here but it is very restrictive...

BTW
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Connecticut voters support 68 - 27 percent a proposal to allow adults to use marijuana for medical purposes, with a physician's prescription, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. There is no gender, partisan, income, age or education group opposed.

By a smaller 54 - 42 percent margin, voters want liquor stores to sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. There are gender and partisan differences: Men support Sunday sales 60 - 37 percent while women are divided 48 - 48 percent. Support is 56 - 41 percent among Democrats and 57 - 40 percent among independent voters, while Republicans split 47 - 48 percent.

Connecticut voters oppose 63 - 35 percent allowing convenience stores at gas stations to sell beer. There is no group in favor of this idea.
Interesting there's so much more support for restrcitions on alchohol sales than you'd find in much of the country - considering CT and RI were the only states not to ratify Prohibition.
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 05:08:58 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

Why do you think that? I think Vermont may be the only candidate. I certainly don't see Massachusetts or definitely Rhode Island doing it. Not Connecticut either. Too much rich, moderate hero suburbs. Washington I think will be the first state, even before California which is probably second. Washington state doesn't have to do deal with Southern California's bullsh**t.
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 05:10:42 pm »
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The medical marijuana bill may finally pass here but it is very restrictive...

BTW
Quote
Connecticut voters support 68 - 27 percent a proposal to allow adults to use marijuana for medical purposes, with a physician's prescription, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. There is no gender, partisan, income, age or education group opposed.

By a smaller 54 - 42 percent margin, voters want liquor stores to sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. There are gender and partisan differences: Men support Sunday sales 60 - 37 percent while women are divided 48 - 48 percent. Support is 56 - 41 percent among Democrats and 57 - 40 percent among independent voters, while Republicans split 47 - 48 percent.

Connecticut voters oppose 63 - 35 percent allowing convenience stores at gas stations to sell beer. There is no group in favor of this idea.
Interesting there's so much more support for restrcitions on alchohol sales than you'd find in much of the country - considering CT and RI were the only states not to ratify Prohibition.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if AZ would be more progressive on this issue.
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