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| | |-+  New England liberals vs Pacific liberals
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Author Topic: New England liberals vs Pacific liberals  (Read 3382 times)
Napoleon
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« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2012, 05:21:18 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

Why do you think that? I think Vermont may be the only candidate. I certainly don't see Massachusetts or definitely Rhode Island doing it. Not Connecticut either. Too much rich, moderate hero suburbs. Washington I think will be the first state, even before California which is probably second. Washington state doesn't have to do deal with Southern California's bullsh**t.

Eastern Washington, though.
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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2012, 05:26:48 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

Why do you think that? I think Vermont may be the only candidate. I certainly don't see Massachusetts or definitely Rhode Island doing it. Not Connecticut either. Too much rich, moderate hero suburbs. Washington I think will be the first state, even before California which is probably second. Washington state doesn't have to do deal with Southern California's bullsh**t.

Eastern Washington, though.

Similar in scale to the Central Valley. I may be underestimating the conservative influence in Western Washington outside the Seattle area though. That might mostly account for the inland areas of Socal. I still have a feeling Washington is more likely to legalize than California.
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2012, 05:33:38 pm »
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Regarding something like Marijuana legalization, the east coast is definitely not as progressive as the west coast. I wouldn't be surprised if the east is closer in it's views on Marijuana to the Midwest AND the south than it is to the west. They are just more traditional people. Law and order conservatism also seems to flourish in this area. And the trust in authority in general is much higher than it is out west. And I think this transcends partisan lines.

On the contrary, I'd say it's almost certain that the first state to legalize marijuana will be in New England.  Of course, it will be subsequently taxed at 900% and its smoking banned in every conceivable public and private location...

Why do you think that? I think Vermont may be the only candidate. I certainly don't see Massachusetts or definitely Rhode Island doing it. Not Connecticut either. Too much rich, moderate hero suburbs. Washington I think will be the first state, even before California which is probably second. Washington state doesn't have to do deal with Southern California's bullsh**t.

Eastern Washington, though.



Medical marijuana initiative, 1998

Eastern Washington is pretty libertarian on drug issues and "nanny state" issues: there's a reason why Ron Paul did so well there. Medical marijuana dispensaries are all over Spokane and the white working class in northern Spokane neighborhoods that certainly aren't bastions of liberalism (although they did vote for Obama) couldn't care less about marijuana laws.
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2012, 08:10:41 pm »
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I don't know much, but I have the feeling that West Coast lefties, while more socially liberal, are pretty moderate when it comes to economic issues. Or at least, that the consensus there is more favorable to low taxes.

Which is why my preference goes without saying.

Well, at least you got your priorities straight.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2012, 08:47:43 pm »
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Though, consideration must be given to:

1. CA being the first state to legalize medical marijuana
2. Having a much more liberal law than WA

A presidential year should help. Hopefully WA can start full legalization off. In my state, it will take a while.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:51:30 pm by Governor Napoleon »Logged

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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 12:34:53 am »
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I think an important point to remember in the WA vs. CA debate is that while the Bay Area may be more left-wing than the Puget Sound, the Puget Sound makes up a much larger portion of WA than the Bay Area does CA.

True, we have Eastern Washington. But King County alone is more populous. We don't really have anything comparable to Orange County, or much of Southern California at all, really.
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 01:00:27 am »
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There's a certain type of "liberalism" that I really dislike that isn't so big in New England but rather moreso in places like Maryland and Illinois, that is kind of what like libertarians like to strawman liberalism as and really big nanny-statism. Like those states despite overwhelming Democratic majorities in the legislatures won't liberalize their drug laws, or why it was so difficult to pass medical marijuana laws, and why they have laws on things like making it illegal to film cops, and laws that basically no one favors but get passed anyway (like how Boris said that in Illinois drinking games are illegal and a lot of bars got raided for hosting them. And I've read in some places it's not just that drinking games are illegal in bars but ANYWHERE and private parties have been busted for them.) These are also the type of places that get obsessed over silly gun laws that don't really do anything to reduce gun crime but make people like Carolyn McCarthy feel better about themselves by passing them.

I kind of wonder what type of political culture leads to things like this, since barely anyone in grassroots Democratic activism supports it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 01:02:03 am by Minute-Hour-Day-Week-Month-Year-(The Faiths In My Chest) »Logged




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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 02:29:30 am »
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I don't know much, but I have the feeling that West Coast lefties, while more socially liberal, are pretty moderate when it comes to economic issues. Or at least, that the consensus there is more favorable to low taxes.

Which is why my preference goes without saying.

Well, at least you got your priorities straight.

I think you misunderstood. Wink
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Napoleon
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2012, 03:08:03 am »
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There's a certain type of "liberalism" that I really dislike that isn't so big in New England but rather moreso in places like Maryland and Illinois, that is kind of what like libertarians like to strawman liberalism as and really big nanny-statism. Like those states despite overwhelming Democratic majorities in the legislatures won't liberalize their drug laws, or why it was so difficult to pass medical marijuana laws, and why they have laws on things like making it illegal to film cops, and laws that basically no one favors but get passed anyway (like how Boris said that in Illinois drinking games are illegal and a lot of bars got raided for hosting them. And I've read in some places it's not just that drinking games are illegal in bars but ANYWHERE and private parties have been busted for them.) These are also the type of places that get obsessed over silly gun laws that don't really do anything to reduce gun crime but make people like Carolyn McCarthy feel better about themselves by passing them.

I kind of wonder what type of political culture leads to things like this, since barely anyone in grassroots Democratic activism supports it.

Sounds likes lot of "liberals" here.
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 06:48:43 am »
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There's a certain type of "liberalism" that I really dislike that isn't so big in New England but rather moreso in places like Maryland and Illinois, that is kind of what like libertarians like to strawman liberalism as and really big nanny-statism. Like those states despite overwhelming Democratic majorities in the legislatures won't liberalize their drug laws, or why it was so difficult to pass medical marijuana laws, and why they have laws on things like making it illegal to film cops, and laws that basically no one favors but get passed anyway (like how Boris said that in Illinois drinking games are illegal and a lot of bars got raided for hosting them. And I've read in some places it's not just that drinking games are illegal in bars but ANYWHERE and private parties have been busted for them.) These are also the type of places that get obsessed over silly gun laws that don't really do anything to reduce gun crime but make people like Carolyn McCarthy feel better about themselves by passing them.

I kind of wonder what type of political culture leads to things like this, since barely anyone in grassroots Democratic activism supports it.

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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2012, 04:03:37 pm »
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Substantial Catholic heritage vs. virtually none.
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shua
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2012, 04:12:35 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?
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brittain33
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« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2012, 01:48:58 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

You're kidding, right? On both counts?
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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2012, 02:00:17 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

The most socially liberal parts of New England are those with Puritan heritage...

(okay, outside of areas with Jewish heritage/areas with large yuppie or alt populations)
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2012, 02:25:41 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

The most socially liberal parts of New England are those with Puritan heritage...

(okay, outside of areas with Jewish heritage/areas with large yuppie or alt populations)

Their "social liberalism" isn't really what it appears on the surface, since it's adopted as a form of passive-aggressive ethnic conflict, and in any case it's more "social liberalism" in the Tipper Gore sense than the Howard Stern sense.
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shua
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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2012, 05:43:39 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

The most socially liberal parts of New England are those with Puritan heritage...

(okay, outside of areas with Jewish heritage/areas with large yuppie or alt populations)
Sure. I'm not suggesting they're 17th century Calvinists.  Puritanism has always had a radical character to it. That Puritan heritage involves its post-Enlightenment transformation into movements such as Unitarianism, abolitionism and feminism. Still, many of those who are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage have a fundamentally communitarian approach to civic life. "City on a hill" and all that.
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Nathan
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 11:18:30 pm »
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Substantial CatholicPuritan heritage vs. virtually none.
Fixed. 

You do know why they call it San Francisco, right?

The most socially liberal parts of New England are those with Puritan heritage...

(okay, outside of areas with Jewish heritage/areas with large yuppie or alt populations)

Their "social liberalism" isn't really what it appears on the surface, since it's adopted as a form of passive-aggressive ethnic conflict, and in any case it's more "social liberalism" in the Tipper Gore sense than the Howard Stern sense.

I don't think it's adopted as a form of passive-aggressive ethnic conflict so much as that's just a nice bonus for a lot of people.
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« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2012, 01:34:19 am »
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There's a certain type of "liberalism" that I really dislike that isn't so big in New England but rather moreso in places like Maryland and Illinois, that is kind of what like libertarians like to strawman liberalism as and really big nanny-statism. Like those states despite overwhelming Democratic majorities in the legislatures won't liberalize their drug laws, or why it was so difficult to pass medical marijuana laws, and why they have laws on things like making it illegal to film cops, and laws that basically no one favors but get passed anyway (like how Boris said that in Illinois drinking games are illegal and a lot of bars got raided for hosting them. And I've read in some places it's not just that drinking games are illegal in bars but ANYWHERE and private parties have been busted for them.) These are also the type of places that get obsessed over silly gun laws that don't really do anything to reduce gun crime but make people like Carolyn McCarthy feel better about themselves by passing them.

I kind of wonder what type of political culture leads to things like this, since barely anyone in grassroots Democratic activism supports it.

This is the kind of vibe I've gotten from Massachusetts and Connecticut, with Massachusetts leaning more authoritarian, and Connecticut more hawkish, specifically Boston and the NYC suburbs.
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« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2012, 01:38:47 am »
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I don't Massachusetts is really a good example, since it decriminalized marijuana by popular referendum, and passed it by an almost 2:1 margin with the whole vote being pretty uncontroversial.
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« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2012, 03:29:49 am »
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One interesting thing about the west coast is how much being close to coast increases liberalism.  It's particularly true in California. In New England, Obama was strongest in Vermont and western Massachusetts.
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