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Author Topic: The educated are disgusting  (Read 2746 times)
fezzyfestoon
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« on: April 02, 2012, 09:24:26 pm »
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Are the Republicans just pulling a classic move in demonizing college degrees? It seems as though they've developed a habit over the course of their existence in targeting a common opposition demographic and turning the rest of the public against them and riding that as a political platform. Hippies are unwashed scum, war opponents are limp wristed wimps, welfare supporters are mooches, etc. Is it just a pitifully successful playground tactic because the educated are trending towards the Democrats? Turning the issues into people on either side rather than face the issue itself. In fact it's not only one of their classic moves, it's a textbook example of a litany of classic logical fallacy meant specifically to distract from real issues. False generalizations, false dilemmas, non-sequiturs, bandwagoning...

And I don't mean this as an actual question, I'm just stirring the pot about this junk and can't successfully translate my tone into internet words.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:27:22 pm by fezzyfestoon »Logged
Yelnoc
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 09:33:50 pm »
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Not a good strategy, considering these census numbers.

Education                                             Percentage
High school graduate                            87.58%
Some college                                         56.86%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree    39.89%
Bachelor's degree                                  30.44%
Master's degree                                      7.95%
Doctorate or professional degree            3.00%

I don't get that vibe as much as you do, though.  Sure, there is a demonization of the "liberal intellectual elite" college professors and the like, but the average parents of your Republican voting nuclear family all expect (or at least hope) their children will get bachelors degrees.
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Dereich
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 09:54:39 pm »
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Not a good strategy, considering these census numbers.

Education                                             Percentage
High school graduate                            87.58%
Some college                                         56.86%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree    39.89%
Bachelor's degree                                  30.44%
Master's degree                                      7.95%
Doctorate or professional degree            3.00%

I don't get that vibe as much as you do, though.  Sure, there is a demonization of the "liberal intellectual elite" college professors and the like, but the average parents of your Republican voting nuclear family all expect (or at least hope) their children will get bachelors degrees.

I've always wondered what "some college" means. I've noticed that they tend to vote GOP more then the other groups and just assumed it meant associates degrees, but this seems to disprove that. Does anyone know what its supposed to mean?
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Frodo
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 09:55:40 pm »
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Not a good strategy, considering these census numbers.

Education                                             Percentage
High school graduate                            87.58%
Some college                                         56.86%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree    39.89%
Bachelor's degree                                  30.44%
Master's degree                                      7.95%
Doctorate or professional degree            3.00%

I don't get that vibe as much as you do, though.  Sure, there is a demonization of the "liberal intellectual elite" college professors and the like, but the average parents of your Republican voting nuclear family all expect (or at least hope) their children will get bachelors degrees.

I've always wondered what "some college" means. I've noticed that they tend to vote GOP more then the other groups and just assumed it meant associates degrees, but this seems to disprove that. Does anyone know what its supposed to mean?

Someone who attended college but left before before they could complete their bachelor's degree would be my guess. 
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Mechaman
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 10:47:36 pm »
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What they should be attacking are the elites, not the educated.

Shocking fact, but there is a difference.
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 10:51:41 pm »
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I had a friend tell me once that American politics is just a struggle between two the business elite and the academic elite, both of which demonize the other stir up a following and trick everyone into voting for the because of how terrible the other elites are.

I'm not a moderate extremist like him, but I think it's a pretty accurate description.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 11:27:00 pm »
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What they should be attacking are the elites, not the educated.

Shocking fact, but there is a difference.

That's not what they're saying at all. They're taking direct issue with college education by asserting that it is an indication of being "elite". They're turning one thing (a highly positive thing) and purposefully implying that it equates to the universal negative of being a snobby elitist from the Northeast. They've done it before with those other things I've listed.
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dead0man
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 11:32:38 pm »
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First women and now the college educated?  What's next puppies?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 03:25:13 am »
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Not a good strategy, considering these census numbers.

Education                                             Percentage
High school graduate                            87.58%
Some college                                         56.86%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree    39.89%
Bachelor's degree                                  30.44%
Master's degree                                      7.95%
Doctorate or professional degree            3.00%

I don't get that vibe as much as you do, though.  Sure, there is a demonization of the "liberal intellectual elite" college professors and the like, but the average parents of your Republican voting nuclear family all expect (or at least hope) their children will get bachelors degrees.

I've always wondered what "some college" means. I've noticed that they tend to vote GOP more then the other groups and just assumed it meant associates degrees, but this seems to disprove that. Does anyone know what its supposed to mean?

Someone who attended college but left before before they could complete their bachelor's degree would be my guess. 

1 in 6 Americans drop out of college? Or am I misinterpreting the figures?
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Franzl
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 03:27:55 am »
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No, I think you're right. One thing that leads to that, I guess, is inability to continue financing studies. That's likely far more common in the US than most places.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 03:30:09 am »
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Not a good strategy, considering these census numbers.

Education                                             Percentage
High school graduate                            87.58%
Some college                                         56.86%
Associate's and/or Bachelor's degree    39.89%
Bachelor's degree                                  30.44%
Master's degree                                      7.95%
Doctorate or professional degree            3.00%

I don't get that vibe as much as you do, though.  Sure, there is a demonization of the "liberal intellectual elite" college professors and the like, but the average parents of your Republican voting nuclear family all expect (or at least hope) their children will get bachelors degrees.

I've always wondered what "some college" means. I've noticed that they tend to vote GOP more then the other groups and just assumed it meant associates degrees, but this seems to disprove that. Does anyone know what its supposed to mean?

Someone who attended college but left before before they could complete their bachelor's degree would be my guess. 

1 in 6 Americans drop out of college? Or am I misinterpreting the figures?

The four year graduation rate at many state schools is abysmal. As an example here are my state's rates:

University of Idaho - 25%
Boise State - 6%
Idaho State - 7%
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Gustaf
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 03:35:22 am »
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No, I think you're right. One thing that leads to that, I guess, is inability to continue financing studies. That's likely far more common in the US than most places.

Right, good point.

The on-time graduation rate is very low in Sweden as well, but that's hardly strange since the education is free. There isn't that strong an incentive to graduate on time.
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dead0man
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 04:48:13 am »
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No, I think you're right. One thing that leads to that, I guess, is inability to continue financing studies. That's likely far more common in the US than most places.
A lot of people just drop out for various, non-financial reasons (I'm one).  Not cutting it being the big one (not me...sort of).  A lot of people go to college because it's what they are "supposed to do" even though college isn't necessarily a good fit (me).  Trade school or the military should be valid options, not second choices that are looked down upon by peers, counselors and parents.  There should be no shame given to the HS senior that wants to get into HVAC or carpentry.

(I'm not saying you are saying that, I'm just saying that it is a common attitude)
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 05:12:12 am »
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Well, they frequently are.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 06:41:23 am »
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I had a friend tell me once that American politics is just a struggle between two the business elite and the academic elite

LOL
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 08:10:31 am »
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I had a friend tell me once that American politics is just a struggle between two the business elite and the academic elite

LOL
A lot of truth to it in the current alignment, of course. Grin
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shua
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 03:56:08 pm »
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Are the Republicans just pulling a classic move in demonizing college degrees?
I don't think anyone is demonizing degrees.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 05:37:03 pm »
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Are the Republicans just pulling a classic move in demonizing college degrees?
I don't think anyone is demonizing degrees.

Eh, I think you'll find many cultural conservatives bash the idea of a "liberal arts" education or anything that they don't see as productive (most of the social sciences and humanities).
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opebo
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 08:49:06 pm »
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What they should be attacking are the elites, not the educated.

Shocking fact, but there is a difference.

The elite have millions (or billions) of dollars - the educated are just a slightly different category of worker.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2012, 04:18:46 pm »
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Are the Republicans just pulling a classic move in demonizing college degrees?
I don't think anyone is demonizing degrees.

Eh, I think you'll find many cultural conservatives bash the idea of a "liberal arts" education or anything that they don't see as productive (most of the social sciences and humanities).

It's not just cultural conservatives who do it. I'm going for a Geography and History BA, and the students of every other faculty seem to be in a civil war with us for our "poor choice" and "useless degree." At least we devote our studies to ideas, not numbers. But I guess that's a conversation for another day!

Generally though, my time in university has really shown me the elite side of academia. These people are wanting to devote their whole lives to abstract, fart-in-the-wind academic debates. It's pretty stuffy, and it's full of people who think they're better than you because they can write a good essay. I'm not a fan.
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shua
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 11:12:57 pm »
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Are the Republicans just pulling a classic move in demonizing college degrees?
I don't think anyone is demonizing degrees.

Eh, I think you'll find many cultural conservatives bash the idea of a "liberal arts" education or anything that they don't see as productive (most of the social sciences and humanities).
Sure, but that's not the same as demonizing.
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2012, 12:42:44 am »
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It's not just cultural conservatives who do it. I'm going for a Geography and History BA, and the students of every other faculty seem to be in a civil war with us for our "poor choice" and "useless degree." At least we devote our studies to ideas, not numbers. But I guess that's a conversation for another day!

Yeah I can't stand when math-types who don't know too much about politics/history try to say their somehow technically "smarter" because they know math instead. They think they know everything about the universe but when you ask them basic political strategy or history you get a blank state coupled with a dismissal of those subjects in general as being "not important". It's basically a way they try to get out of admitting that someone else is smart too.
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 08:45:39 pm »
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Bashing the smarts is a way of praising the idiots. Since the overwhelming majority of the people of every country is made of idiots...
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2012, 12:26:58 am »
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Bashing the smarts is a way of praising the idiots. Since the overwhelming majority of the people of every country is made of idiots...

My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge!

/sarcasm/
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2012, 12:40:29 am »
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What they should be attacking are the elites, not the educated.

Shocking fact, but there is a difference.

The elite have millions (or billions) of dollars - the educated are just a slightly different category of worker.


Well, obviously. The elites are based upon who they know and how powerful their daddy was and not how educated or competent they are. We are not a meritocracy. The richest 1% are certainly not the smartest 1%, the most educated 1%, or the hardest working 1%.
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