Who's more "out of touch"?

[J. J.]

Obama understands that the key to a strong economy is a prosperous middle class (though Republicans are always going to obstruct on that objective); Romney, on the other hand, is totally and utterly in thrall to the failed supply-side fantasies of the past 30 years that will only further 'burden' the US with debt, more debt and even more debt, just as it did during the 'Eighties' and 'Noughties'

Obama has failed the middle class.  He doesn't understand that the engine for prosperity is business.  He sees only government as the provider of prosperity. 

Can we vote for JJ or is it considered undue competition?

Just look at the country of your avatar to see what the "governmental approach" has given us.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Obama understands that the key to a strong economy is a prosperous middle class (though Republicans are always going to obstruct on that objective); Romney, on the other hand, is totally and utterly in thrall to the failed supply-side fantasies of the past 30 years that will only further 'burden' the US with debt, more debt and even more debt, just as it did during the 'Eighties' and 'Noughties'

Obama has failed the middle class.  He doesn't understand that the engine for prosperity is business.  He sees only government as the provider of prosperity. 

Can we vote for JJ or is it considered undue competition?

Just look at the country of your avatar to see what the "governmental approach" has given us.

Just look at Somalia to see what "limited government" has given us.

[J. J.]

Obama understands that the key to a strong economy is a prosperous middle class (though Republicans are always going to obstruct on that objective); Romney, on the other hand, is totally and utterly in thrall to the failed supply-side fantasies of the past 30 years that will only further 'burden' the US with debt, more debt and even more debt, just as it did during the 'Eighties' and 'Noughties'

Obama has failed the middle class.  He doesn't understand that the engine for prosperity is business.  He sees only government as the provider of prosperity. 

Can we vote for JJ or is it considered undue competition?

Just look at the country of your avatar to see what the "governmental approach" has given us.

Just look at Somalia to see what "limited government" has given us.

There is a difference between "limited government intervention in the economy" and "not government."  The old ways of big government, the Callahan style intervention are as bankrupted as, well, Greece.  Don't worry too much, however, Obama is leading the county to that level.

Obama, in touch with Europe of the 1970's, out of touch with America in the 2010's.

[argentarius]

Obama understands that the key to a strong economy is a prosperous middle class (though Republicans are always going to obstruct on that objective); Romney, on the other hand, is totally and utterly in thrall to the failed supply-side fantasies of the past 30 years that will only further 'burden' the US with debt, more debt and even more debt, just as it did during the 'Eighties' and 'Noughties'

Obama has failed the middle class.  He doesn't understand that the engine for prosperity is business.  He sees only government as the provider of prosperity. 

Can we vote for JJ or is it considered undue competition?

Just look at the country of your avatar to see what the "governmental approach" has given us.

Just look at Somalia to see what "limited government" has given us.

Guys, both examples are massively irrelevant. In Greece some parts of government are far too big in my opinion, however if the government would actually collect taxes and put 2 and 2 together (I've heard lots of stories about this, one of them being a registered taxi driver who's claiming the social welfare of a blind person). In Somalia, the government is powerless. I bet they wish they controlled their people but they can't.

This isn't the first time I've seen Lyndon attacked for his avatar.

[King]

I like how this turned into a "my candidate has a worse educational background than your candidate" thread.

[Gustaf]

I think the correct answer to this is "the Atlas virgins"

And I mean that as a double entendre.

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

lol actually I think that Utah republican attacked Lyndon's avatar too XD.


Ad Hominem is a no-no my friends.

[Zioneer]

Romney. Even if Obama was upper-middle class when he was growing up, he never had the sheer wealth and prestige of Romney. That immense wealth insulates him from regular people, and so makes him out-of-touch.

[Senator Napoleon]

Romney. Even if Obama was upper-middle class when he was growing up, he never had the sheer wealth and prestige of Romney. That immense wealth insulates him from regular people, and so makes him out-of-touch.

Wealth doesn't insulate one from regular people. Or even prevent one from being a "regular person".

[Democratic Hawk]

Obama understands that the key to a strong economy is a prosperous middle class (though Republicans are always going to obstruct on that objective); Romney, on the other hand, is totally and utterly in thrall to the failed supply-side fantasies of the past 30 years that will only further 'burden' the US with debt, more debt and even more debt, just as it did during the 'Eighties' and 'Noughties'

Obama has failed the middle class.  He doesn't understand that the engine for prosperity is business.  He sees only government as the provider of prosperity.  

Can we vote for JJ or is it considered undue competition?

Just look at the country of your avatar to see what the "governmental approach" has given us.

Just look at Somalia to see what "limited government" has given us.

There is a difference between "limited government intervention in the economy" and "not government."  The old ways of big government, the Callahan style intervention are as bankrupted as, well, Greece

Unemployment when Jim Callaghan left office was 1.1 million having declined from the 1.5 million peak it reached as a consequence of the recession, which followed the 'Oil Crisis'. Then came the 'Monetarist Recession' and double-digit unemployment for most of the 1980s

Don't worry too much, however, Obama is leading the county to that level.

Obama, in touch with Europe of the 1970's, out of touch with America in the 2010's.

The only thing driving your country to that level is the ruinous supply-side fantasies of the GOP. Obama, on the other hand, favours a more balanced approach, just as Clinton - by far the most economically successful of the 'neoliberal' presidents - did towards reducing the deficit

[asexual trans victimologist]

Obama grew up in a lower middle class household, had to pay student loans, worked as a community organizer in impoverished neighborhoods and didn't live a lavish lifestyle until fairly recently. He has a personal understanding of the dilemmas faced by the average American.

Romney? lol

Obama is more out of touch.

As for growing up, his grandmother was a bank vice president, his stepfather was an oil company executive, his mother had an earned Ph D., his father was a Harvard graduate, and he went to a prestigious private school.  Until I went to college, I knew no one that upper class, in my age group.

Yet he still spent time on food stamps and going through many of the same stages of youth discontent as most people. Your point?

His mother, when a student, did.  Very upper class people have their "discontent" period.  Your point?

Obama had an early life characterized by extreme lack of certainty about things even when he was living with the richer parts of his family, is my point. He isn't a son of a governor and Cabinet minister who makes twenty-two million dollars a year for not working. He has an unusual background but it was the exact opposite of one that isolated him from the hardships of life, even if he spent much of it in relative material comfort.

Romney, at the age of nineteen, protested in favor of the draft.

[J. J.]

lol actually I think that Utah republican attacked Lyndon's avatar too XD.


Ad Hominem is a no-no my friends.

I'm not attacking the avatar, but I think the analogy is quite valid.  We're seeing Obama advocating very high level of governmental involvement in the economy, beyond regulation.  We have seen that in other countries in the past (UK in the 1970's) and present (Greece in the 2010's).  Those policies simply have not produced the result.

I do find it interesting that both posters who brought this up can look at their own countries and see examples of where it hasn't worked or isn't working.  That doesn't say anything about the merits of their avatars, or their counties.  It says more about the failures of this policy (and perhaps the posters skills at observation).

Even if Obama was upper-middle class when he was growing up, he never had the sheer wealth and prestige of Romney.

Well, it was the silly claim that Obama was lower middle class.  Not being lower middle class does not mean that you are out of touch or unfit to be president.  Likewise, having "wealth or prestige," and Romney was not super rich growing up, is not a dis-qualifier.  He certainly did not inherit great wealth.

Certainly, both were upper middle class, and I would argue that Romney was lower upper class after his father was elected governor, if not before.

In his adult life, Obama was exceptionally insular, he certainly had not had the breadth of exposure to other people that Romney has.  And in all fairness, Romney about 14 more years to gain this exposure.

[politicus]

Wealth doesn't insulate one from regular people.

Why not? They typically move in completely different circles and have different lifestyles. Please elaborate on that one.

[Zioneer]

Romney. Even if Obama was upper-middle class when he was growing up, he never had the sheer wealth and prestige of Romney. That immense wealth insulates him from regular people, and so makes him out-of-touch.

Wealth doesn't insulate one from regular people. Or even prevent one from being a "regular person".

But extreme wealth does help to insulate a person from poorer people, even if a few wealthy people understand full well the lives of those poorer than themselves. Especially the rich who are born into wealth, like Romney. That can't really be denied.

[True Federalist]

Neither one could really be called "in touch" now, but Romney is more out of touch, and worse, he fails to understand that he is out of touch.  I think Obama at least understands he is out of touch.

[J. J.]

Obama had an early life characterized by extreme lack of certainty about things even when he was living with the richer parts of his family, is my point. He isn't a son of a governor and Cabinet minister who makes twenty-two million dollars a year for not working. He has an unusual background but it was the exact opposite of one that isolated him from the hardships of life, even if he spent much of it in relative material comfort.

No real "hardships," for Obama, unless it you call a desire to go to school in the US a "hardship."  Frankly, I think that aspect is commendable.

 I would also note that being the son of the former governor may help Romney had he stayed in MI.  He didn't.  He didn't inherit that money.  He earned it over 25-30 years.  That is merit, and I'm fine with it.

Romney, had he wanted to, could have stayed in MI, nice and safe, and probably used his name recognition to be elected to something (the names Scranton and Casey come to mind in PA, and bluntly Bush, nationally).  He didn't.  He struck out on his own, and worked for what he earned, even completely outside of his father's fields.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Obama had an early life characterized by extreme lack of certainty about things even when he was living with the richer parts of his family, is my point. He isn't a son of a governor and Cabinet minister who makes twenty-two million dollars a year for not working. He has an unusual background but it was the exact opposite of one that isolated him from the hardships of life, even if he spent much of it in relative material comfort.

No real "hardships," for Obama, unless it you call a desire to go to school in the US a "hardship."  Frankly, I think that aspect is commendable.

Maybe not necessarily economic hardships (not that Romney has either), but he understands various aspects of cultural hardship that a whitebread rich like Romney can't viscerally even if he does intellectually (which he also doesn't seem to).

I would also note that being the son of the former governor may help Romney had he stayed in MI.  He didn't.  He didn't inherit that money.  He earned it over 25-30 years.  That is merit, and I'm fine with it.

Romney, had he wanted to, could have stayed in MI, nice and safe, and probably used his name recognition to be elected to something (the names Scranton and Casey come to mind in PA, and bluntly Bush, nationally).  He didn't.  He struck out on his own, and worked for what he earned, even completely outside of his father's fields.

....are...are you at all familiar with the concept of 'connections'?

[J. J.]

Unemployment when Jim Callaghan left office was 1.1 million having declined from the 1.5 million peak it reached as a consequence of the recession, which followed the 'Oil Crisis'. Then came the 'Monetarist Recession' and double-digit unemployment for most of the 1980s

And that "terrible" economy produced Thatcher (1979), Thatcher (1983), Thatcher (1987), and Major (1992).  Even when Labour won, it was "New Labour," that had finally moved away from "Sunny Jim," and his "cloudy future."

The only thing driving your country to that level is the ruinous supply-side fantasies of the GOP. Obama, on the other hand, favours a more balanced approach, just as Clinton - by far the most economically successful of the 'neoliberal' presidents - did towards reducing the deficit

Clinton's famous quote was, "The era of big government is over."  He understood that the old ways simply no longer worked.  Obama has yet to learn that lesson.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Neither one could really be called "in touch" now, but Romney is more out of touch, and worse, he fails to understand that he is out of touch.  I think Obama at least understands he is out of touch.

This.

[Marokai]

By no measure could anyone seriously state Obama is more out of touch than Mitt Romney.

[J. J.]

Maybe not necessarily economic hardships (not that Romney has either), but he understands various aspects of cultural hardship that a whitebread rich like Romney can't viscerally even if he does intellectually (which he also doesn't seem to).

You don't think he could understand what can happen if he could not perform?  He couldn't rely on a trust fund.

....are...are you at all familiar with the concept of 'connections'?

Sure, and are you familiar with how few there are for the son of a former public officeholder, in a different field, in another state?

[Sibboleth]

This thread is deeply embarrassing on so many levels.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

Obama is surrounded by yes men, lackeys, flunkys, toadys, and sycophants, who tell him what he wants to hear.

So obviously Obama.

[J. J.]

By no measure could anyone seriously state Obama is more out of touch than Mitt Romney.

I think you have to look at what they did in their lives after college, and it is a matter of degree.  

Neither one of these guys grew up in public housing (at let's leave college out of it for both).  By the same token, neither one of these guys had a father that got to appoint or confirm a Supreme Court Justice, nor are we determining which member of Skull and Bones should be elected.

In his early professional like, Romney started out in an entry level position and was not hired away by Bain until 1977.  He actually went back to school first.  His wealth from Bain didn't really come until the late 1990's.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Maybe not necessarily economic hardships (not that Romney has either), but he understands various aspects of cultural hardship that a whitebread rich like Romney can't viscerally even if he does intellectually (which he also doesn't seem to).

You don't think he could understand what can happen if he could not perform?  He couldn't rely on a trust fund.

No, actually, I really don't think Mitt Romney understands the concept of being a poor person. I think it's somewhat ridiculous to suggest otherwise, to be quite honest.

....are...are you at all familiar with the concept of 'connections'?

Sure, and are you familiar with how few there are for the son of a former public officeholder, in a different field, in another state?

...he was a multiple-term governor, Cabinet minister, presidential candidate, and former boss of one of the biggest companies in the country.