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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #400 on: December 12, 2012, 07:07:11 PM »

Haha, the latter should all be guillotined. 

This is the correct answer. Their mansions can then be turned into public housing and/or state-funded, free-to-visit museums.

Guillotined?  Hmmm... slippery slope. 

Certainly it is a sad reflection on American perceptions that most would see those nightmarish little cretins as somehow having "earned" their lofty perch in society, while so-called "welfare queens" continue on by leeching of their success, though.  The "rich kids of Instagram" are most definitely the true parasites. 

Al/Al (normal), BTW. 
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #401 on: December 13, 2012, 04:15:54 AM »

Memphis, for all your ridicule of womens' studies, and I say this as someone who has done his fair share of ridiculing of those things, you seem to have a very limited understanding of how patriarchal structures are supposed to work. I say supposed in order to facilitate a common ground here.

It's not about legal or physical barriers. Have you never known a woman intimately? And I don't necessarily mean sleeping with one. Just knowing a woman pretty well is sufficient to see this. I had a girlfriend who avoided working for investment banks. Not because she didn't want to, because she did. Not because they said they didn't like women, because they actually did the opposite, claiming to want more female employees. But because she very acutely felt the barriers of the sexist culture of those places and the way society expects men to do such jobs better. That's just a tiny anecdotal example from a country usually considered one of the most gender-equal in the world.

You're clearly viewing this from the perspective of a man. Which is natural since you are one. But the whole idea of tolerance and human rights is that we attempt to understand those coming from other positions in life. Not only do you fail in that but you seem uninterested to even try, content to retain misogynist positions. You should really reconsider that. 
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Gustaf
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« Reply #402 on: December 13, 2012, 04:38:48 AM »

I should clearly post more about womens' issues if it makes even Antonio like my posts. Tongue
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #403 on: December 13, 2012, 04:51:35 AM »

I should clearly post more about womens' issues if it makes even Antonio like my posts. Tongue

That's what I found particularly infuriating about our post-DSK affair feud. I have for long been a passionate advocate of gender theories, and very sensitive to displays of patriarchal/reactionary mentalities, so being cast as a sexist or even a rape apologist was truly unbearable to me.

(I will admit that some of my comments, in the wake of the shock that the affair was to me as a French leftist, have been poorly thought or misguided - but I also maintain that you have a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and to argue against strawmen instead of against them)
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Gustaf
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« Reply #404 on: December 13, 2012, 05:09:37 AM »

I should clearly post more about womens' issues if it makes even Antonio like my posts. Tongue

That's what I found particularly infuriating about our post-DSK affair feud. I have for long been a passionate advocate of gender theories, and very sensitive to displays of patriarchal/reactionary mentalities, so being cast as a sexist or even a rape apologist was truly unbearable to me.

(I will admit that some of my comments, in the wake of the shock that the affair was to me as a French leftist, have been poorly thought or misguided - but I also maintain that you have a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and to argue against strawmen instead of against them)

Well, when someone opens a discussion by labeling me a bigot I become a lot less inclined to be charitable in debate. One might even think of such behaviour as a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and arguing against a strawman.

But I can't say I care that much about how you rationalize that exchange afterwards. If you want to think that I'm characterized by judging people or debating strawmen, that's fine. I'm sure Memphis would agree with you by now... Wink 
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #405 on: December 13, 2012, 05:16:35 AM »

I should clearly post more about womens' issues if it makes even Antonio like my posts. Tongue

That's what I found particularly infuriating about our post-DSK affair feud. I have for long been a passionate advocate of gender theories, and very sensitive to displays of patriarchal/reactionary mentalities, so being cast as a sexist or even a rape apologist was truly unbearable to me.

(I will admit that some of my comments, in the wake of the shock that the affair was to me as a French leftist, have been poorly thought or misguided - but I also maintain that you have a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and to argue against strawmen instead of against them)

Well, when someone opens a discussion by labeling me a bigot I become a lot less inclined to be charitable in debate. One might even think of such behaviour as a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and arguing against a strawman.

But I can't say I care that much about how you rationalize that exchange afterwards. If you want to think that I'm characterized by judging people or debating strawmen, that's fine. I'm sure Memphis would agree with you by now... Wink 

And I labeled you a bigot after how made a comment about how this wasn't surprising since DSK was French, a comment which you later explained was humorous and admitted that, if serious, it would indeed have been a sign of bigotry. I think my misunderstanding of the tone of your comment is fairly understandable in context.

Now, I admitted I did overreact in certain instances, but I encourage you to also face your own issues and flaws - unless you prefer to think everything was my fault.

Your post against Memphis was substantial, comprehensive, and went deep to the core of the argument, hence my posting it here.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #406 on: December 13, 2012, 05:47:36 AM »

I should clearly post more about womens' issues if it makes even Antonio like my posts. Tongue

That's what I found particularly infuriating about our post-DSK affair feud. I have for long been a passionate advocate of gender theories, and very sensitive to displays of patriarchal/reactionary mentalities, so being cast as a sexist or even a rape apologist was truly unbearable to me.

(I will admit that some of my comments, in the wake of the shock that the affair was to me as a French leftist, have been poorly thought or misguided - but I also maintain that you have a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and to argue against strawmen instead of against them)

Well, when someone opens a discussion by labeling me a bigot I become a lot less inclined to be charitable in debate. One might even think of such behaviour as a disturbing tendency to judge people very early and arguing against a strawman.

But I can't say I care that much about how you rationalize that exchange afterwards. If you want to think that I'm characterized by judging people or debating strawmen, that's fine. I'm sure Memphis would agree with you by now... Wink 

And I labeled you a bigot after how made a comment about how this wasn't surprising since DSK was French, a comment which you later explained was humorous and admitted that, if serious, it would indeed have been a sign of bigotry. I think my misunderstanding of the tone of your comment is fairly understandable in context.

Now, I admitted I did overreact in certain instances, but I encourage you to also face your own issues and flaws - unless you prefer to think everything was my fault.

Your post against Memphis was substantial, comprehensive, and went deep to the core of the argument, hence my posting it here.

That's not what I said - I characterized rape as a cultural misunderstanding which is hard to take seriously. It'd make me a pretty strange person if I meant it. It was a humorous way of conveying the point that French men are known for sexist behaviour which is also something that became a central part of the debate everywhere (except maybe in France) after the incident.

You were reacting very emotionally so in that context I guess it's understandable that you'd lash out at people.

Anyway, thanks for quoting my post, it wasn't my intention to drag this out again. It was just a humourous observation since I got 2 posts quoted into here from that discussion.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #407 on: December 13, 2012, 08:10:16 PM »

Anyways...

Discrimination on the basis of race: reprehensible.
Discrimination on the basis of gender: reprehensible.
Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation: reprehensible.
Discrimination on the basis of weight: hahah fatty go kill yourself
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #408 on: December 13, 2012, 08:13:29 PM »

Nothing of this makes discrimination and bullying against fat people OK. Also, not everybody "chooses" to be fat.
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Northeast Rep Snowball
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« Reply #409 on: December 14, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »

Nothing of this makes discrimination and bullying against fat people OK. Also, not everybody "chooses" to be fat.
.
I guess so, but if someone had some sort of legal penalty for being black vs someone having some sort of penatly for weight, I would be far more complaint with the weight one. I feel that weight is more comparable to an addiction or something of that sort then race, sex or orientation.
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Donerail
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« Reply #410 on: December 14, 2012, 03:44:47 PM »

I'm sure I'd get crucified by the usual suspects if I even started to make this political..... But seriously, how often does this have to happen before we actually do something about it?

Jesus Roll Eyes

Hey, if only the gun laws were less strict then the kids would carry some firearms to defend themselves.

Go to Hell. I don't care if you or anyone else reports me. Go to Hell.

Your post in that thread also belongs here too.

I'm sure I'd get crucified by the usual suspects if I even started to make this political..... But seriously, how often does this have to happen before we actually do something about it?

Jesus Roll Eyes

Hey, if only the gun laws were less strict then the kids would carry some firearms to defend themselves.

No. Just, no. Don't you even fucking dare. Your smartass snark is unwelcome at the best of times, but to flaunt it here, in the wake of the mass murder of children, borders on unforgivable.

27 lives are gone, people. Most of them children. How about we respect that now and save the gun control debate and miscellaneous partisan vomit for a time when the bodies aren't still warm?
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #411 on: December 14, 2012, 03:51:15 PM »

cool righteous indignation bros
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #412 on: December 14, 2012, 03:55:35 PM »

But how many times must this happen? How many times must innocents die until we wake up and say "enough is enough"! People say it's disrespectful to make this political so soon, and really what they mean is that it's bad business to talk about gun control, ever. What's disrespectful is never looking at the issue in the face and deciding to do something for once. America needs to talk gun control. Now. Not tomorrow. Not next year. Now.

No, nothing will come of this.  The sooner you accept that, and await the next murderous rampage, the easier it'll be.  Trust me.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #413 on: December 15, 2012, 05:32:16 AM »


The more I see which posters reacted like that to my post, the better I feel about it.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #414 on: December 15, 2012, 01:16:51 PM »

Mr Lief, there is an inksing huge difference between "contrary opinions" and this kind of bullinks:
It's a good thing this country prioritizes low taxes and the rights of paranoid rednecks over mental healthcare and gun control.

Is there? Most opinions on this site that are contrary to my own seem like bullinks to me, but you don't see me making a whiny thread about, complaining that I'm a persecuted victim, and then running away like a baby.

I'll admit, you're right on this one. Instead, we get to see you deride and call for the figurative crucifixion of anyone who disagrees with you. It's much better, see.

I think Lief's a good guy, but I do get the impression that election season kinda threw him out of whack.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #415 on: December 15, 2012, 02:06:16 PM »

Mr Lief, there is an inksing huge difference between "contrary opinions" and this kind of bullinks:
It's a good thing this country prioritizes low taxes and the rights of paranoid rednecks over mental healthcare and gun control.

Is there? Most opinions on this site that are contrary to my own seem like bullinks to me, but you don't see me making a whiny thread about, complaining that I'm a persecuted victim, and then running away like a baby.

I'll admit, you're right on this one. Instead, we get to see you deride and call for the figurative crucifixion of anyone who disagrees with you. It's much better, see.

Who do I deride and figuratively crucify? Is he still mad because I suggested that Oldiesfreak was a bigot because he called Janet Napolitano and Tammy Baldwin "space bikers"?

If someone is using homophobic or racist language, I'm going to call them out on it. If I use that sort of language, I'd hope people do the same.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #416 on: December 15, 2012, 02:26:48 PM »

If you knew anything about Oldiesfreak, Mr Lief, you would know that that is entirely plausible.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #417 on: December 15, 2012, 06:35:31 PM »

Brilliant input from the true brains of the forum:


 The rogue mind in which the gun rest denies life again, its horror imagined lived infinity by the survivors of Adam Lanza; his capital sin, revenge - the Obama Christmas Present’.  The Obama Christmas Future’ - the denial and abuse of the Founding Father’s fundamentals can only foster greater atrocities. Their foresight was not void of mass murder, it’s forming was of it. Our Christmas Pass’, Obamacare - the aggrandizement of life, liberty and loot is met with equal distain.
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Ban my account ffs!
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« Reply #418 on: December 15, 2012, 07:45:28 PM »

Nothing of this makes discrimination and bullying against fat people OK. Also, not everybody "chooses" to be fat.

You're exactly right.  Some people choose to be skinny.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #419 on: December 15, 2012, 09:25:19 PM »

Mr Lief, there is an inksing huge difference between "contrary opinions" and this kind of bullinks:
It's a good thing this country prioritizes low taxes and the rights of paranoid rednecks over mental healthcare and gun control.

Is there? Most opinions on this site that are contrary to my own seem like bullinks to me, but you don't see me making a whiny thread about, complaining that I'm a persecuted victim, and then running away like a baby.

I'll admit, you're right on this one. Instead, we get to see you deride and call for the figurative crucifixion of anyone who disagrees with you. It's much better, see.

Who do I deride and figuratively crucify? Is he still mad because I suggested that Oldiesfreak was a bigot because he called Janet Napolitano and Tammy Baldwin "space bikers"?

If someone is using homophobic or racist language, I'm going to call them out on it. If I use that sort of language, I'd hope people do the same.

You didn't seem to like it that much when you were called out on wishing the death of Jews. Good thing you didn't make a whiny thread about that, at least. If you had you might look like a hypocrite now.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #420 on: December 15, 2012, 09:33:08 PM »

You didn't seem to like it that much when you were called out on wishing the death of Jews.

Ah, there's Mr. Strawman, barging into the thread right on cue.
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Vosem
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« Reply #421 on: December 15, 2012, 10:53:25 PM »

You didn't seem to like it that much when you were called out on wishing the death of Jews.

Ah, there's Mr. Strawman, barging into the thread right on cue.

http://www.lostateminor.com/2010/04/20/glass-house-with-glass-furniture/
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #422 on: December 16, 2012, 04:50:50 AM »

I also don't know where people are getting the idea Brown would be a shoo-in for Senate from as well, what are the odds the Democrats will nominate someone as godawful as Coakley again?

It's not the Democratic candidate, it's the Republican candidate...the logic goes like this: before Elizabeth Warren declared her run against him, Scott Brown was basically safe. Warren won't be running against him. Therefore, while he certainly took a hit from the 2012 campaign, his approval rating remains positive and he is better-known than any potential opponent and, considering the sort of voters with a propensity to turn out in special elections like this, the electorate will be more favorable: therefore, he is slightly favored. Also, while you mention Coakley, ironically Coakley herself and Deval Patrick, the two most popular statewide officials in MA today, are probably the two strongest Democratic candidates. Alas, Capuano is probably the likeliest candidate. Coakley is never running for the Senate again and Patrick doesn't want it.

The argument against this is obvious (Massachusetts is so Democratic none of this matters!), but we'll basically have to wait for polling, probably from PPP, to see if that's really the case. (I actually recall back in January of 2010 the first polling company to show Brown in the lead was PPP, 44-43. Correct me if I am wrong...ah, those were interesting times, politically speaking.)

Given what happened, I don't think Brown could have beaten anyone in 2012. That said, a lot of the problem he had then will be worse now.

Coakley was the worst candidate Democrats could have run for reasons that had zero to do with her personal ineptitude as a candidate. The dominate feature in Massachusetts politics from 2004 onwards were the internal divisions opened up by the Gay Marriage issue. On one hand it swamped Romney, but less noticed is its effect on the state Democratic party. It brought in a wave of new activists, and probably made possible Deval Patrick's entry into the 2006 governor's race. While almost all Democrats supported it by 2007, there was a lot of resentment at the takeover of the party by activists, and Coakley, who was a protege of Reilly, was a big part of that.

Patrick made the situation worse by all but ignoring if not insulting traditional democratic players, even bringing up busing at his first St. Patrick's day Dinner. This culminated in the 2008 Presidential Primary, where the Coakley-Cahill wing backed Clinton, and Patrick backed Obama. Of course, Kerry/Kennedy treacherously backstabbed the Clintons, or at least that was the view of a lot of Democrats. The truth is, there wasn't much good feeling towards Kennedy in the final 18 months of his life in a lot of Democratic circles, and if anything, his high-handed endorsment actually backfired, leading to Clinton's 18 point romp.

Coakley was a die-hard Clintonite bordering on a Puma, voting for Hillary and then insisting on abstaining at the DNC. She entered the race for Senate as much to prevent a Patrick(and by extension Obama-aligned candidate) from taking the seat and to partially get vengeance on Kerry and the Kennedy's. It was a bizarre campaign, but one where she ran hard.

Of course she stopped campaigning altogether after the primary, because that was the campaign she cared about. She then planned to head to Washington where she would be a conservative for Massachusetts senator dedicated to making life hell for Kerry and Obama. Of course that didn't happen. Voters who felt the same way she did suddenly turned on their TVs over Christmas and saw a better version of what she was offering.

Coakley, when she got in trouble in early January, was therefore in the worst position imaginable to reactivate the Democratic coalition. She had based her primary appeal on being at least partially a vote against Obama, and the urban/yuppie/activist/minority domination of the party, and she suddenly needed general election turnout among all of those groups. And she was far too proud to ask for help.

None of those divisions exist anymore. The 2008 elections are years in the past. Brown will not fly under the radar. He will have to take positions on taxes, the debt limit(when it explodes again in March) and the Supreme court, and you can bet his Scalia statement from the debates would be everywhere.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #423 on: December 16, 2012, 05:58:44 PM »

My own mother can't even get social security disability, and she is confined either to a bed, an arm chair, or a wheel chair... has use of one arm and almost no use of her legs.  But she has been told she does not qualify as apparently she's not "disabled enough".

The PCA that has worked for her for 7 years has a husband that gets $1200/month because he has a bad back and he works full time seal-coating driveways getting paid under the table so he can continue to get benefits.

You'd better be damned sure your psychological problems interfere with your life to the point that gainful employment is impossible... because from what it sounds like, your family has the resources to support you and help you get the help you need to lead a normal life.

My family has all the moral/emotional/sympathetic support in the world for my mom... but we have no money.  And before the conservatives jump in with "SEE THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN SO WE SHOULD DISMANTLE IT"... every time the GOP starts hacking at budgets with a crow bar, my mom gets kicked off of medicaid and has to go through the process of reapplying.  In the meantime, the lack of PCAs is a major financial drain on the family, who must care for her, and ultimately she ends up in the emergency room 1-2 times/month because she can't get her medications.

The fraud and gaming of the system is totally worth it if you'd quit f**king my mom over.  Thank you Smiley
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #424 on: December 17, 2012, 04:28:07 AM »

Also there's no need to be so condescending.
Well, maybe but you need to understand that it is very provocative when you talk about prostitution in terms of "not all jobs are fun" etc. Whatever you write about prostitution please remember that selling your body is a fundamentally different thing from selling your labour. Using that comparison is both disrespectful and absurd.  

I will admit that you can find several studies that disagree with the majority view.

One important thing to consider when evaluating studies of prostitution is that the worst psychological problems with prostitution are not related to shame, stigma etc. but to the simple fact that a prostitute has to have sex with someone he or she doesn't want to have sex with. In order to cope with this you need to disconnect your mind from your body and it is this process that in the long run is very harmfull and dangerous. Since we are talking about long term injuries it is not necessarily relevant how the women (and men) currently working in the sex industry are doing, since they may not yet have been damaged enough to have the problems.
Remember that psychological damages can potentially occur decades after the actual event.
(think war veterans, victims of violent crime etc.).

Another problem is that many prostitutes are former victims of sexual abuse and they have already had to build up the defence mechanisms I was talking about in my last post in their childhood making the consequences of having to prolong this process in adult life even more problematic.

Prostitution is a complex issue. It can never be fully eradicated and I am not necessarily against legalization (for people over 21, you are generally not mature enough to make that choice earlier) under all circumstances since it might be the least bad option.
If I were to support legalization it should be combined with an active effort to discourage young people from entering into prostitution and attractive exit offers to the ones already in the trade offering an alternative (including rehab programs for drug addicts) + a strict control with the industry including a license to buy prostitutes given only to people without a police record of being charged or convicted of violent and/or sex related crime.
This is hardly realistic in a US context, where the authorities are not exactly known to be generous regarding social work and it would obviously create a black market for unlicensed, prostitution and underage, but at least make it safer for the regulated trade. The penalties for customers enganging in illegal prostitution should be very harsh in this scenario (comparable to rape).
 
What made me angry was therefore not your support for legalization, but this callous comparison of menial work and prostitution and the general carefree attitude in your post.
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