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| | |-+  CT to repeal the death penalty
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Author Topic: CT to repeal the death penalty  (Read 5813 times)
jimrtex
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« Reply #75 on: April 08, 2012, 11:22:32 pm »
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Any of the conservative Catholics who get so sincere and devoted to life over the issue of contraception care to take this opportunity for ideological consistency? Doubt it.
The Roman Catholic church is extremely anti-capital punishment.

Yes, and they are also against birth control as well -and how many Catholics in the United States listens to the Vatican on that score?
The hierarchy at least is consistent.  The Archbishop of Galveston-Houston has conducted vigils outside abortion providers and the TDCJ prison in Huntsville where Texas does its executions.
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« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2012, 07:30:23 pm »
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The chances that CA voters repeal the death penalty are not too bad actually.

The ballot language will probably include "and replace it with life imprisonment without the chance of parole".

And the latest Field poll shows:

48% life without parole
40% death penalty

http://field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2393.pdf

And as you can see from the historical poll results, support for life without parole is steadily increasing.

If you think California voters will repeal the death penalty, you're crazy.

^^ This. There is a much greater change of Marijuana being legalized than the death penalty being repealed. And there isn't much chance of either.
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« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2012, 07:50:13 pm »
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Here is a good moral argument for why capital punishment should be banned:
If the convict in question harmed me personally by killing a member of my family, I would push that damn button in a heartbeat.  And he should be thanking his lucky stars that I let the law take its course as opposed to taking it in my own hands.

We have passed the point where capital punishment is necessary to protect others from being harmed and is basically an instrument of revenge. I think Frodo captures much of what victims' families feel after such a tragedy and we then kill the murderer not for the public safety but our own thrist for blood. From a moral standpoint, it is not okay to kill the criminal using the law as your instrument just as it is not okay to kill the criminal via a hired hitman.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2012, 09:27:52 pm »
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The chances that CA voters repeal the death penalty are not too bad actually.

The ballot language will probably include "and replace it with life imprisonment without the chance of parole".

And the latest Field poll shows:

48% life without parole
40% death penalty

http://field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2393.pdf

And as you can see from the historical poll results, support for life without parole is steadily increasing.

If you think California voters will repeal the death penalty, you're crazy.

^^ This. There is a much greater change of Marijuana being legalized than the death penalty being repealed. And there isn't much chance of either.

I tend to agree it's unlikely any state population would vote to repeal the death penalty outright unless there were some recent scandals (executed innocents, etc) or it was a big financial sinkhole. And isn't the latter the case in California?

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/20/local/la-me-adv-death-penalty-costs-20110620

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June 20, 2011
Taxpayers have spent more than $4 billion on capital punishment in California since it was reinstated in 1978, or about $308 million for each of the 13 executions carried out since then, according to a comprehensive analysis of the death penalty's costs.

The examination of state, federal and local expenditures for capital cases, conducted over three years by a senior federal judge and a law professor, estimated that the additional costs of capital trials, enhanced security on death row and legal representation for the condemned adds $184 million to the budget each year.

Given California's budget issues, I think it's very possible voters will repeal it if not just to save money.
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« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2012, 05:18:46 pm »
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I think Frodo captures much of what victims' families feel after such a tragedy and we then kill the murderer not for the public safety but our own thrist for blood.

Don't be so quick:

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The Connecticut Senate is expected to vote as early as Wednesday (April 4) on a bill to replace the death penalty with a sentence of life without parole. The bill, which would only affect future sentencing, passed the Judiciary Committee on March 21 and needs at least 18 votes to pass in the Senate. If it passes the Senate, it is considered likely to pass the House, and Governor Dannel Malloy has pledged to sign the bill into law. A similar bill passed the General Assembly in 2009, but was vetoed by then-Governor Jodi Rell. Murder victims’ families and friends are among the strongest supporters of the repeal. A letter signed by 179 Connecticut murder victims’ families stated, “Our direct experiences with the criminal justice system and struggling with grief have led us all to the same conclusion: Connecticut’s death penalty fails victims’ families.... In Connecticut, the death penalty is a false promise that goes unfulfilled, leaving victims’ families frustrated and angry after years of fighting the legal system. And as the state hangs onto this broken system, it wastes millions of dollars that could go toward much needed victims’ services.” If Connecticut repeals the death penalty, it will become the 5th state to do so in the past 5 years. Illinois, New Mexico, New Jersey, and New York have all abandoned the death penalty in recent years. Other states are also considering repeal of the death penalty, including California, where 800,000 signatures have been gathered to place the issue on the ballot in November.

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/connecticut-senate-poised-vote-death-penalty-repeal
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« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2012, 04:09:58 am »
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He didn't claim all murder victims' families have such feelings.

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I may conceivably reconsider.

Knowing me it's more likely than not.
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« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2012, 06:26:18 am »
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We have passed the point where capital punishment is necessary to protect others from being harmed and is basically an instrument of revenge.

Exactly, it is essentially a purification ritual.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2012, 12:37:24 am »
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Passed the house: http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/recent-legislation-death-penalty-repeal-passes-second-connecticut-house-awaits-governors-signature

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On April 11, the Connecticut House of Representatives passed (86-62) a bill to abolish the death penalty for future crimes. The same bill passed the Connecticut Senate on April 5. Governor Dannel Malloy has pledged to sign the bill, which will make Connecticut the 17th state to abolish the death penalty, and the 5th to do so in the last 5 years. In a statement released after the House vote, Gov. Malloy said, "When I sign this bill, Connecticut will join 16 other states and almost every other industrialized nation in moving toward what I believe is better public policy."
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« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2012, 12:53:14 am »
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The thing that pisses me off about this isn't just the hypocrisy in keeping the current death row population (as I noted in another thread) but the fact that doing so will also cost the state millions and it's incredibly unlikely any of the current inmates on death row will actually be executed, since getting an execution in Connecticut was almost impossible even under the old statute (much like California and Pennsylvania, where the only people executed have been "volunteers" who waived all their appeals, and the one person executed in Connecticut under its old statute was the same.) It reminds me of New York spending several million to reinstate the death penalty, which effectively might as well have just been withdrawn in cash and burnt.

But I'd still vote for it if I were in the state legislature.
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BRTD
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« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2012, 12:55:22 am »
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And for the record, that's also why I've come to the conclusion that even if I didn't think the death penalty was morally objectionable (which I do), I would still consider it not worth the costs and bureaucracy with the way it's done in most states. Even if I changed my mind on the moral status of the death penalty, I'd still oppose its institution in Minnesota since doing so would accomplish nothing but waste a couple million of state funds.

It's like the old joke about the military recruits complaining about how the mess hall served such awful food, and in such small helpings. Capital punishment is a morally abhorrent practice, and the fact that most states are so incompetent in carrying it out kind of makes the whole thing even more pathetic and worthy of opposition, even if it's preferable to it actually being competent and effectively carried out as in China.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:57:42 am by blood red X's for every 24 hours ive suffered through »Logged

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Antonio V
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« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2012, 04:49:10 am »
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NY reinstated the death penalty ?!? Shocked
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
Tender Branson
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« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2012, 04:52:45 am »
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NY reinstated the death penalty ?!? Shocked

I think Pataki was responsible for that, but I'm not really sure ...
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greenforest32
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« Reply #87 on: April 13, 2012, 04:52:58 am »
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NY reinstated the death penalty ?!? Shocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_New_York

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Capital punishment in New York has not been practiced since 1963, when Eddie Mays was electrocuted at Sing Sing Prison. The state was the first to adopt the electric chair as a method of execution, which replaced hanging. The state is third in recorded number of executions since 1608, after Virginia and Texas.[1] Following the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling declaring existing capital punishment statutes unconstitutional in Furman v. Georgia (1972), New York was without a death penalty until 1995, when then-Governor George Pataki, a Republican, signed a new statute into law, which provided for execution by lethal injection.

In June 2004, the state's highest court ruled in People v. LaValle that the state's death penalty statute violated the state constitution,[2] and New York has had an effective moratorium on capital punishment since then. Subsequent legislative attempts at fixing or replacing the statute have failed,[3] and in 2008 then-Governor David Paterson issued an executive order disestablishing New York's death row.[4]
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Antonio V
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« Reply #88 on: April 13, 2012, 04:54:52 am »
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Oh well, I thought it was a recent stuff.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
k-onmmunist
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« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2012, 07:32:03 am »
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How pathetic.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #90 on: April 13, 2012, 07:55:50 am »
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How pathetic.

Patatik I would say.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
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Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #91 on: April 13, 2012, 08:51:25 am »
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Patatik? D:
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Grumps
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« Reply #92 on: April 13, 2012, 09:38:27 am »
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I'm going to repeal my policy to run over all children I see anywhere near the road.  Doesn't matter I've never implemented it, ever, but I'll repeal it.  Will you love me now? 

Seriously, this is just a f[inks]ing show.
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Why not just ban the entire forum except Gully and Oakvale?

It would simply be the logical conclusion of the current ban-wave.
politicus
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« Reply #93 on: April 13, 2012, 12:47:36 pm »
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I'm going to repeal my policy to run over all children I see anywhere near the road.  Doesn't matter I've never implemented it, ever, but I'll repeal it.  Will you love me now? 

Seriously, this is just a f[inks]ing show.
Sometimes symbolic acts do matter. I think this is one of them.
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« Reply #94 on: April 13, 2012, 01:02:09 pm »
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Seriously, this is just a f[inks]ing show.

A "show" that is going to save a lot of money.

Unused death penalty is pretty expensive. Ironic, but true.
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« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2012, 11:16:07 pm »
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I find this graph fascinating

It seems capital punishment was on track to be the minority position, just as a reaction to the sense of unrest during the 60s began to build.  In the 90s, there was a decrease in crime, and that may have dropped support for capital punishment - but a lot more is going on there too.
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« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2012, 08:42:42 am »
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The death penalty is very popular in CT in this quinnipiac poll.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/connecticut/release-detail?ReleaseID=1739
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« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2012, 01:42:50 pm »
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And this makes it right how, exactly?
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« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2012, 02:27:30 pm »
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Good thing we believe that the value of human life should be determined by the polls.
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« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2012, 02:29:27 pm »
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Good thing we believe that the value of human life should be determined by the polls.
Shouldn't values be determined by the markets?
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I may conceivably reconsider.

Knowing me it's more likely than not.
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