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| | |-+  GOP notches another victory in the War on Women
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Author Topic: GOP notches another victory in the War on Women  (Read 1298 times)
Torie
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« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2012, 12:26:02 pm »
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I guess it depends on how you define the "interests of women."  Is it in the "interests of women" to move more in the direction of rendering men dysfunctional as and uninterested in being bread winners? We seem to have found the superhighway with no speed limits to getting there.

What? In what way?  Are you saying men are dis-motivated by efforts towards gender equality?  I don't think feeling bad about your privilege being reduced is precisely the same thing as that.  One might as well say freeing the Black rendered Southern Planters dysfunctional as and uninterested in being cotton winners.


Well let us start with male academic performance hitting the crapper, along with their interest in supporting families. I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience. One can debate the causes, but none of this current stuff is very helpful.
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Torie
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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2012, 12:30:03 pm »
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No, where is it?  Does Holder think Marbury v Madison is still good law?

Yes, he affirms it just before he turns the knife.

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/04/dojltr5thcir.pdf

Splendid. Next time Obama can just say (ludicrously, but he can say it), that any claim that the mandate goes beyond the reach of the interstate commerce clause is frivolous, and therefore if SCOTUS finds otherwise, it is being "activist."  

Obama insulted hopefully just about everyone's intelligence by saying that however, who knows one f'ing thing about interstate commerce constitutional law. What is Obama's clear "limiting principle" by the way?  I never heard one from team Obama. In fact, they were so pathetic, that I had to make one up for them - before then proceeding to shred it I think pretty effectively.

Obama is I suspect even more arrogant that I am, and I find that rather disturbing actually.

You should scale back your interactions with JJ. It starts showing.

There is no need to shoot through JJ's corpus while he is not here, to try to lodge some hot lead in the old man. JJ perhaps due to his pacific nature takes a lot of crap around here, that I for one would not put up with. Thanks.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2012, 12:37:28 pm »
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No, where is it?  Does Holder think Marbury v Madison is still good law?

Yes, he affirms it just before he turns the knife.

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/04/dojltr5thcir.pdf

Splendid. Next time Obama can just say (ludicrously, but he can say it), that any claim that the mandate goes beyond the reach of the interstate commerce clause is frivolous, and therefore if SCOTUS finds otherwise, it is being "activist."  

Obama insulted hopefully just about everyone's intelligence by saying that however, who knows one f'ing thing about interstate commerce constitutional law. What is Obama's clear "limiting principle" by the way?  I never heard one from team Obama. In fact, they were so pathetic, that I had to make one up for them - before then proceeding to shred it I think pretty effectively.

Obama is I suspect even more arrogant that I am, and I find that rather disturbing actually.

You should scale back your interactions with JJ. It starts showing.

There is no need to shoot through JJ's corpus while he is not here, to try to lodge some hot lead in the old man. JJ perhaps due to his pacific nature takes a lot of crap around here, that I for one would not put up with. Thanks.

Ad hominem attacks about my nationality and pacific nature usually don't come together.
The crap he takes is because he says ridiculous or downright false things and when he is busted he insists that he is right using increasingly convoluted arguments and torturous logic.
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« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2012, 01:04:50 pm »
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Well let us start with male academic performance hitting the crapper, along with their interest in supporting families. I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience. One can debate the causes, but none of this current stuff is very helpful.

No, that's all caused by capitalism Torie - your neo-liberal ideology demands that they become very poor and paid only a subsistence, so that they cannot support families or afford to attend college.

Just put them all back in unions making $50/hour with full benefits, and they'll take care of all social and familial obligations to a T.
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« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 02:55:43 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.
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Torie
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« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2012, 03:35:22 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.
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« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2012, 04:14:23 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.
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Torie
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« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2012, 04:55:56 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.

Oh, I doubt there has been a very accurate gay census. It isn't all or nothing anyway often.
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Beet
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« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2012, 05:07:59 pm »
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FWIW, 88% of the net increase in jobs since February 2010 can be accounted for by net increase among men. The meme that men are in trouble was partially started by the collapse of the construction and manufacturing industries, compared to the relative stability of the health care, education and local government sectors. This meant that, during the recession men lost jobs at a disproportionate rate compared to women. But now with manufacturing coming back, construction bottoming out, and more men getting into fields such as nursing, we are seeing the jobs comeback centered around men. The male unemployment rate used to be much higher than the female unemployment rate, but now they are about even.

The technology center is going to be another job nexus over the next 10 years and I can tell you right now, women are in big trouble if we are counting on technology to provide the next generation's jobs. Well, we are all in trouble but women especially. Boys don't grow up dreaming of becoming scientists or astronauts the way they used to, but men don't have a problem learning this stuff if they need to, to find a career. For women, I don't think they are less capable than men but I do think the socialization is so overwhelming, a young woman who wants to maintain a successful feminine presentation, and goes into software is like an alien stepping into another planet.

Overall, the ratio of labor force participation of women to men made great strides through the mid-1990s and then stalled out.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 05:14:40 pm by Beet »Logged

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« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2012, 06:58:44 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.

Oh, I doubt there has been a very accurate gay census. It isn't all or nothing anyway often.

No, I'm talking about the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice. Saying that it can be "popular" as if it's some kind of fad indicates that you think it is.
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Torie
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« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2012, 07:05:00 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.

Oh, I doubt there has been a very accurate gay census. It isn't all or nothing anyway often.

No, I'm talking about the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice. Saying that it can be "popular" as if it's some kind of fad indicates that you think it is.

It's a continuum. Some folks are at the margins, and some separate certain sex acts from their self identity, and on and on. There just isn't some bright line out there.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2012, 07:15:05 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.

Oh, I doubt there has been a very accurate gay census. It isn't all or nothing anyway often.

No, I'm talking about the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice. Saying that it can be "popular" as if it's some kind of fad indicates that you think it is.

It's a continuum. Some folks are at the margins, and some separate certain sex acts from their self identity, and on and on. There just isn't some bright line out there.

Yes there is. You can't choose to be gay anymore than you can choose to have Muscular dystrophy or the color of your eyes.
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2012, 08:38:09 pm »
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I would not be surprised if gayness gets more popular over time. In fact, I suspect it is based on my anecdotal experience.

What exactly does this have to do with making men dysfunctional? The only thing you've noticed is gay people being more open about it - this is primarily because society has become more tolerant of homosexuality. The actual amount of homosexuals has not really increased.

That is another theory.

It's a better one that yours considering it's actually backed by science.

Oh, I doubt there has been a very accurate gay census. It isn't all or nothing anyway often.

No, I'm talking about the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice. Saying that it can be "popular" as if it's some kind of fad indicates that you think it is.

It's a continuum. Some folks are at the margins, and some separate certain sex acts from their self identity, and on and on. There just isn't some bright line out there.

Sexual attraction is not related to actually performing sex acts. Some men are certainly bisexual, but they make up only a small percentage of the population and as such aren't really relevant to any argument about making men dysfunctional. In fact, your entire notion that men being in homosexual relationships are dysfunctional is absurd.
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« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2012, 08:46:47 am »
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I won't get into all the discussion in this thread as I arrived late (including the lovely discussion on gayness) but I think forcing women to put wands in their vagina before they get a medical procedure is disgusting and I don't think it's far fetched to call it rape. You can oppose abortion all you want but humiliating women like that? Oh and has the Republican party at large smacked down Rush yet for calling a woman with PCOS a slut? Last I remember Romney ran away when asked a question about it.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 10:17:23 pm by Mr. Moderate »Logged
Torie
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« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2012, 09:44:10 am »
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Quote
In fact, your entire notion that men being in homosexual relationships are dysfunctional is absurd.

I never said that, and if I implied it, I misspoke, and I don't believe that. What I was musing about I guess in the end, is if marriage, and being the bread winner for a family, and so forth, is less attractive and/or feasible to men overall due to their poor educational performance, marginalization in the PC world, and so forth, at the margins it might affect sexual behavior. It was meant to be a small point, not a large one.
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« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2012, 10:02:57 am »
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What I was musing about I guess in the end, is if marriage, and being the bread winner for a family, and so forth, is less attractive and/or feasible to men overall due to their poor educational performance, marginalization in the PC world,

But the important point is not the issue about the gay (because after all who cares if a poor is gay or straight), but rather the assumptions I've underlined above.  Those are not the reasons men cannot afford to have families, Torie.  They can't afford to have families because of government-imposed polices: concentration of income and impoverishment of the vast majority of men.  If you think that anything beyond a tiny minority of men can 'achieve' breadwinner incomes in a neo-liberal economic arrangement, you're dreaming.  And after all this leads to enormous social problems, all borne by the working class.  You rich are consuming the poor in the most vicious way imaginable.
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 10:11:38 am »
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No, opebo. If we only cut the marginal tax rate on Apple Inc. and Warren Buffet by another percentage point, mountains of gold will trickle down onto the faces of millions of newly breadwinning men.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 10:15:47 pm by Mr. Moderate »Logged

Torie
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« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2012, 10:51:23 am »
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What I was musing about I guess in the end, is if marriage, and being the bread winner for a family, and so forth, is less attractive and/or feasible to men overall due to their poor educational performance, marginalization in the PC world,

But the important point is not the issue about the gay (because after all who cares if a poor is gay or straight), but rather the assumptions I've underlined above.  Those are not the reasons men cannot afford to have families, Torie.  They can't afford to have families because of government-imposed polices: concentration of income and impoverishment of the vast majority of men.  If you think that anything beyond a tiny minority of men can 'achieve' breadwinner incomes in a neo-liberal economic arrangement, you're dreaming.  And after all this leads to enormous social problems, all borne by the working class.  You rich are consuming the poor in the most vicious way imaginable.

Yes, the economy of the planet has changed, putting downward economic pressure on lower skilled workers among other things. It certainly is an issue which cannot be ignored. But none of the above explains why 60% of college graduates in the US are now female, and the economic dividends of a college degree are now more substantial than ever.
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