Opinion of the churches of Christ

[A cowboy always follows his beard]

Why don't they believe the latter (majority of people going to hell)?

Because we dare hope.

But look at the stats. A majority of people are not Christians, using the loosest definition possible. And what about those guys like the Ancient Babylonians/Egyptians/Chineese/Indians/Mayans/Aztecs/Incans/Greeks/Persians/ anyone else I missed that died long before Jesus was born?

[So the Heroes Fall]

You're just bringing up one theological view, which by the way isn't held by the Catholic Church or very much at all in the mainline churches, and isn't even universal amongst evangelicals, as I'm going to a nominally evangelical church. In the same sermon I mentioned above with the "99%" reference, the same guy covered how the magi who came to see Jesus, the "Three" Wise Men*, were Eastern Religious scholars, not Jews or Christians, and then talked about how God can work through people who aren't Christian and kind of tied into that sermon series' general theme of "Jesus is for EVERYONE". I've never heard any of the pastors by the way talk about hell, or do that whole "Pray this and give your life to Christ right now!" type of thing that people commonly associate with evangelicals.

*As you might already know, the Bible never gives a number to them, people just often assume three due to the three gifts mentioned and assuming a proportionality.

We had some of these kids at my high school. I remember two girls in particular because they were not allowed to use profanity, which we all thought was a bit silly. I remember one of the girls was reading her copy of an assigned novel from English class, and she would white out the words she found inappropriate.

Haha, what? Wow. I hear people say "f**k" and "sh!t" at church events all the time.

I think it's your church that's in the minority on this issue BRTD. 

Perhaps, but primarily because other churches have far more olds.

[asexual trans victimologist]

Why don't they believe the latter (majority of people going to hell)?

Because we dare hope.

But look at the stats. A majority of people are not Christians, using the loosest definition possible. And what about those guys like the Ancient Babylonians/Egyptians/Chineese/Indians/Mayans/Aztecs/Incans/Greeks/Persians/ anyone else I missed that died long before Jesus was born?

What we dare hope is, among other things, that the Church Invisible exists and the Harrowing of Hell occurred from eternity.

[So the Heroes Fall]

BTW Nathan do you think most people at your church believe in the Virgin Birth and that Resurrection?

Because I'm not sure if dead0man thinks they are, but those are obviously hardly held only amongst fundies, by the last poll about 78% of Americans believed Jesus rose from the dead, and any church that denies those things would be edging on Unitarianism...But of course you also have people like Spong.

[Smid]

the magi who came to see Jesus, the "Three" Wise Men*, were Eastern Religious scholars, not Jews or Christians, and then talked about how God can work through people who aren't Christian and kind of tied into that sermon series' general theme of "Jesus is for EVERYONE".

Indeed. Persian, I'd suspect, but I've heard suggestions that they could have been from as far off as Korea or China. It's quite obvious that it took them some time to arrive because even factoring in that Herod wouldn't have noticed them missing immediately, he still went after male children under the age of 2, so it clearly took them a while to arrive (even if Herod was being a tad conservative in his estimates). There was an incense route that they may have followed, although the Bible doesn't mark out the route they took. My father suggested to me once that the star they followed may well have been the same pillar of fire the Israelites followed in the wilderness after leaving Egypt, but again, that's speculation. Not really relevant to the discussion here, but an interesting point to consider.

[dead0man]

Why don't they believe the latter (majority of people going to hell)?

Because we dare hope.

But look at the stats. A majority of people are not Christians, using the loosest definition possible. And what about those guys like the Ancient Babylonians/Egyptians/Chineese/Indians/Mayans/Aztecs/Incans/Greeks/Persians/ anyone else I missed that died long before Jesus was born?

Anybody that never got a chance to be saved gets saved automatically....or at least that's how I learned it.

[asexual trans victimologist]

BTW Nathan do you think most people at your church believe in the Virgin Birth and that Resurrection?

Probably. I know our priests do, and most of us believe in some form of Real Presence, so it'd be kind of weird if many of us rejected the Virgin Birth and Resurrection. We have an older congregation and people in this area who are religiously observant are usually much more traditional on these issues than they are on ones of what we might call political theology. Even our UUs are more Christian stylistically than ones in most places.

Spong is to be quite honest something of an embarrassment these days, particularly among the kind of liberal-but-Incarnational theologians who hold sway at places like EDS.

[So the Heroes Fall]

We have an older congregation

In Amherst? So you're one of the youngest people there? That's kind of weird.

Churches full of olds make me uncomfortable, even if they're progressive, which is part of the reason I'm not comfortable with most mainline churches, (I know we have some here that have a broad age range like the one I went to on Christmas Eve but the median age was still around middle aged there.)

[asexual trans victimologist]

We have an older congregation

In Amherst? So you're one of the youngest people there? That's kind of weird.

The average age is around fifty, but there are some young families. I'm the only young adult most weeks but there are kids around and most age and generational groups over say mid-thirties or so are pretty well represented. It's not a growing church but it certainly isn't shrinking; Amherst actually has a very vibrant faith community relative to what its politics might lead one to expect. For instance it's also home to what I think is the only mosque Westa Woosta, unless they fixed that place in the Springfield area up since last I checked, and there's a Hasidic rabbi who's a very beloved local personality. Aside from Grace Episcopal where I go, the Catholic, UU, and Congregationalist churches, as well as the Newman Center at the university, are all quite well attended. There's also Motown Man, a street performer who does a capella Motown covers (they're really good!), hosts a local-access talk show that people actually watch, and runs a ministry to the poor out of the motel where he lives, apparently by choice.