Home
2012
Election Results
Election Info
Weblog
Wiki
Search
Email
Site Info
Store
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
May 25, 2013, 03:59:33 pm
News:
Please delete your old personal messages.
Atlas Forum
General Politics
International General Discussion
(Moderators:
Peter
,
afleitch
)
United Ireland?
« previous
next »
Pages:
1
2
[
3
]
Poll
Question:
Will there be a united Ireland in 2032?
Aint gonna happen
25 (80.6%)
Yes - a confederation
3 (9.7%)
Yes - a federal republic
3 (9.7%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 31
Author
Topic: United Ireland? (Read 1969 times)
Ghyl Tarvoke
Gully Foyle
YaBB God
Posts: 9942
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #50 on:
April 15, 2012, 09:25:50 pm »
Quote from: Χahar on April 15, 2012, 09:15:07 pm
After 1973, it was essentially a colony, wasn't it? It wasn't as though Northern Ireland had much real say over the government that ruled it.
No, after 1972 (correction, 1972) it became, at least in theory, as a totally integrated part of the UK, similiar then to Scotland and Wales pre-devolution. However, in practice, as the British Army had a significant military presence in the country by that time, things were a little more complicated...
The thing is though when direct rule was imposed it was over the wishes of the Unionist Party (in one of its "falling apart" moment) and the protestant community as a whole. It was mostly moderate Catholics (and sometimes not so moderate ones) who wanted direct rule imposed despite the fact that by that stage the British military presence was hugely unpopular (only a few months after Bloody Sunday after all).
Also, what Al said. Someone needed to look over "those bloody people".
Logged
Quote from: Liveline On Séan Quinn
These are ordinary people Joe, he just wanted to buy a bank
Quote from: Some guy on Facebook
Guess it's a question of perspective & choice of narrative method ...
... and that, by the way, is also one of the reasons why none of Eric Hobsbawm's books has been turned into a succesful Broadway musical so far.
politicus
YaBB God
Posts: 2406
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #51 on:
April 16, 2012, 09:42:54 am »
Quote from: ag on April 15, 2012, 08:28:16 pm
Well, in any case, the rump UK would, for all practically purposes, be the Greater England, in which Wales and Northern Ireland would, at best, be "autonomous entities" of sorts. While it may be possible, the nature of the UK would change radically
Yes, England would be even more dominant than today and have 510 out of 550 members in the House of Commons. Welsh first minister Carwyn Jones has an idea of a new upper house in this scenario where England, Wales and NI should have equal representation.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/13/scottish-independence-wales-northern-ireland
But I doubt the English would accept.
The problem with any kind of federal structure in Britain is that England is simply too big an entity compared to the rest.
Only the Danish Realm is worse off in this respect. Greenland and the Faroes only have about 2,2 % of the total population combined making federalism ludicrous. But NI's share of the population in a "Rump-UK" would actually only be slightly higher.
Logged
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
Winston Churchill
"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."
Barry Goldwater
The way 90% of Atlas threads end up:
crypto-fascist superhero
wormyguy
YaBB God
Posts: 7808
Political Matrix
E: 7.61, S: -7.65
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #52 on:
April 16, 2012, 11:49:18 am »
England should really be split into multiple smaller entities for devolution, but I guess that isn't a very popular idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England_devolution_referendums,_2004
Logged
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Bq8xeQrU
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 53027
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #53 on:
April 16, 2012, 11:50:22 am »
Based off the 1979 referendum, devolution in Wales wasn't a very popular idea either.
Logged
'Gentlemen, a desert. A place of savage reference for the good people of Ohio. A place to fear and love. A blasted region. Something to remind us what we hewed out of. A place without malls. An Other for Ohio's Self. Cacti and scorpions and the sun bearing down. Desolation. A place for people to wander alone. To reflect. Away from everything. Gentlemen, a desert.'
YL
YorkshireLiberal
YaBB God
Posts: 741
Political Matrix
E: -5.35, S: -6.70
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #54 on:
April 17, 2012, 12:48:49 pm »
Quote from: food justice on April 16, 2012, 11:49:18 am
England should really be split into multiple smaller entities for devolution, but I guess that isn't a very popular idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England_devolution_referendums,_2004
While it's true that splitting England up for devolution isn't a simple concept, the assemblies offered in those referendums (two of which were cancelled of course) wouldn't really have had powers comparable with those of the existing devolved parliaments/assemblies, and I think this was part of the reason they were so decisively rejected.
Logged
Somewhat reluctant Labour supporter
Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
Posts: 56548
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #55 on:
April 17, 2012, 12:56:57 pm »
...as that made it easy to paint them as just another talkshop and waste of taxpayer money.
The fact that a referendum actually went ahead despite a complete lack of establishment enthusiasm for the idea really says more than the actual results. Then again, there's a reason the Northeast was the place that had a referendum. Can you imagine the spectacle of a pilot referendum in the government's definition of the "Southeast"?
Logged
Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
Liberate yourself from Free Will
Kitty's beardgrowing advice to Mitty.
patrick1
YaBB God
Posts: 6986
Re: United Ireland?
«
Reply #56 on:
April 17, 2012, 11:35:18 pm »
Quote from: ObserverIE on April 13, 2012, 10:49:26 am
Quote from: afleitch on April 13, 2012, 06:15:20 am
While re-unification has romantic appeal to some Catholics in Northern Ireland, the suspension of Home Rule and the introduction of an army presence was initially welcomed as a protection against political Orangism. Even during the 'Troubles' it was more welcomed than perhaps many Catholics would care to admit (and always preferable to the police)
I wouldn't over-egg the pudding; the welcome wore out very quickly after the Falls curfew and the introduction of internment. It also depended on the regiment; a lot of Scottish regiments had a bad reputation for dealing with Catholic civilians and the UDR (officially part of the British Army) a worse one.
Yeah, the hallowed Black Watch got a very bad reputation with the Nationalist community. However, the UDR went even further and was effectively a wing of the UDA.
Several Irish posters here, as Observer states, also underestimate the desire for a united Republic. While it is certainly not a majority, on either side of the border, there is still a strong Republican constituency. Further, despite posts that label Sinn Fein a single issue, Adams party, the goal of an all Ireland party with a voice on all issues continues. There is a generational shift occurring with the likes of a Pearse Doherty leading. Ive also seen some posters say that no one was speaking out against the greed and corruption inherit in the Celtic Tiger era. I'd say you were listening to the wrong people or refused to listen to it because of some culture cringe. The media and government functionaries were not warning but others were.
Logged
Pages:
1
2
[
3
]
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results
=> Presidential Election Trends
=> Election What-ifs?
===> Past Election What-ifs (US)
===> Alternative Elections
===> International What-ifs
-----------------------------
Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections
===> 2013 & Odd Year Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> Congressional Elections
===> 2014 Senatorial Election Polls
=> International Elections
=> Election Predictions
-----------------------------
Questions and Answers
-----------------------------
=> Presidential Election Process
===> Electoral Reform
===> Polling
=> The Atlas
===> How To
-----------------------------
General Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Constitution and Law
=> Religion & Philosophy
=> History
===> Alternative History
-----------------------------
General Politics
-----------------------------
=> U.S. General Discussion
=> Political Geography & Demographics
=> International General Discussion
=> Economics
=> Individual Politics
=> Political Debate
===> Political Essays & Deliberation
===> Book Reviews and Discussion
-----------------------------
Election Archive
-----------------------------
=> 2012 Elections
===> 2012 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2012 House Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2012 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2010 Elections
===> 2010 House Election Polls
===> 2010 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2010 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2008 Elections
===> 2008 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Polls
=> 2006 Elections
===> 2006 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2006 Gubernatorial Election Polls
-----------------------------
Forum Community
-----------------------------
=> Forum Community
===> Forum Community Election Match-ups
=> Election and History Games
===> Mock Parliment
===> Town Hall
===> Survivor
===> Interactive Timelines
=> Off-topic Board
-----------------------------
Atlas Fantasy Elections
-----------------------------
=> Atlas Fantasy Elections
===> Voting Booth
=> Atlas Fantasy Government
===> Constitutional Convention
===> Regional Governments
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Powered by SMF 1.1.18
|
SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Loading...