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Author Topic: Derbyshire; Primer on how/why whites should eschew blacks gets ass fired by NRO  (Read 1434 times)
Torie
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« on: April 09, 2012, 11:55:59 am »
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Yes, John Derbyshire finally let it all hang out.  His little essay about Bayes meets blacks means whites should not meet blacks, got his ass fired on Saturday by National Review. The editor of National Review, Mr Lowry was concerned that Derbyshire's association with NRO was giving Derbyshire's attitudes about blacks far too much oxygen.

John, you should get out more. I just don't think you could hold those views if you met real people, and made an effort to interact with them on their own terms. You are really missing out.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 11:59:41 am by Torie »Logged

BigSkyBob
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 12:13:41 pm »
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Since Derbyshire actually wrote,

"You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs[intelligent and well-socialized blacks],"

we are safe in assuming your strawman about Derbyshire advocating Whites not meet Blacks is well-stuffed with straw.

Excerpted with permission, attribution below per publisher's request:

Quote from: Taki's magazine
Please share this article by using the link below. When you cut and paste an article, Taki's Magazine misses out on traffic, and our writers don't get paid for their work. Email editors@takimag.com to buy additional rights. http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire/page_2#ixzz1rZ0ljmC0
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 12:28:53 pm »
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Interesting that National Review never got their panties all twisted over Buckley's far more racist writings in their own magazine.
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 12:29:32 pm »
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It's interesting that some conservatives tend to be some of the most collectivistic people on the planet, while at the same time claiming that left-wingers are....
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 12:40:37 pm »
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Interesting that National Review never got their panties all twisted over Buckley's far more racist writings in their own magazine.

or over Derbyshire's equally racist (if not as blatantly so) writings on their own web site.
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J. J.
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 01:28:41 pm »
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10b, I'll have to move

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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 01:33:13 pm »
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So following advice 10d might actually do you good!
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 01:43:47 pm »
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Since Derbyshire actually wrote,

"You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs[intelligent and well-socialized blacks],"

we are safe in assuming your strawman about Derbyshire advocating Whites not meet Blacks is well-stuffed with straw.

Excerpted with permission, attribution below per publisher's request:

Quote from: Taki's magazine
Please share this article by using the link below. When you cut and paste an article, Taki's Magazine misses out on traffic, and our writers don't get paid for their work. Email editors@takimag.com to buy additional rights. http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire/page_2#ixzz1rZ0ljmC0

Bob. Bob, Bob. You don't need to defend all of the conservatives all of the time.

Take some time for yourself. Go for a hike. Spend time with family and friends. You've earned it.
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 02:19:33 pm »
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Since Derbyshire actually wrote,

"You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs[intelligent and well-socialized blacks],"

we are safe in assuming your strawman about Derbyshire advocating Whites not meet Blacks is well-stuffed with straw.

Excerpted with permission, attribution below per publisher's request:

Quote from: Taki's magazine
Please share this article by using the link below. When you cut and paste an article, Taki's Magazine misses out on traffic, and our writers don't get paid for their work. Email editors@takimag.com to buy additional rights. http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire/page_2#ixzz1rZ0ljmC0

Bob. Bob, Bob. You don't need to defend all of the conservatives all of the time.

Take some time for yourself. Go for a hike. Spend time with family and friends. You've earned it.

If Torie has some objection to what Derbyshire did write then by all means he should make it. However, if Torie wants to assign a strawman to Derbyshire then we should all object, not as matter of defending Derbyshire, or defending "conservativism," but, rather as part of a general commitment to the Truth.
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 02:23:50 pm »
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P.S. Nathan,

Derbyshire's children are Eurasian. So Torie should have wrote "Primer on how/why Eurasians should eschew Blacks." Derbyshire  told his children to get used to the fact that Blacks would consider them "White." Torie seems to have made the same mistake.
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 02:25:56 pm »
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I'm familiar with John Derbyshire's family and professional connections to Asia.

It's a bit hard to use the 'IWSB' thing as a defense when a few paragraphs later he describes them as a 'luxury good'.
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 02:28:33 pm »
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Eurasian? Really?
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 02:55:01 pm »
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Eurasian? Really?

It's not an unheard-of or considered a necessarily offensive term for mixed-race white/Asian people, but I don't think it's particularly common or thought to be especially PC either.
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Torie
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2012, 03:00:29 pm »
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P.S. Nathan,

Derbyshire's children are Eurasian. So Torie should have wrote "Primer on how/why Eurasians should eschew Blacks." Derbyshire  told his children to get used to the fact that Blacks would consider them "White." Torie seems to have made the same mistake.

Does the below resolve your beef?  Because if it does, you know what they say: a dime's worth of accuracy can cost a dollar in confusion. Plus the headline is less punchy. I suppose the second fix below is the punchiest of them all, but unfortunately then you would point out that blacks are part of the "everyone," and round and round we would go.

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Derbyshire; Primer on how/why whites [non-blacks] should eschew blacks gets ass fired by NRO

Quote
Derbyshire; Primer on how/why whites [everyone] should eschew blacks gets ass fired by NRO


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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 03:21:52 pm »
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I'm familiar with John Derbyshire's family and professional connections to Asia.

It's a bit hard to use the 'IWSB' thing as a defense when a few paragraphs later he describes them as a 'luxury good'.

The most "racist" thing Derbyshire wrote was his suggestion that his children agressively seek out more Black friends than living a normal life would indicate. While I found his suggestion offense, I do not doubt in the least his sincerity. Like every other parent, he wants his children to have the right sort of friends. I would like to think that parents in underclass Black neighborhoods warn their children to stay away from gang members, drug dealers, pimps, taggers, dopers and other anti-social types. I would think every parent wants his kids to fraternize with "well socialized" children.
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 03:39:59 pm »
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P.S. Nathan,

Derbyshire's children are Eurasian. So Torie should have wrote "Primer on how/why Eurasians should eschew Blacks." Derbyshire  told his children to get used to the fact that Blacks would consider them "White." Torie seems to have made the same mistake.

Does the below resolve your beef?

Since my "beef" is with the correctness of your claiming, "His little essay about Bayes meets blacks means whites should not meet blacks," is an accurate characterization of Derbyshire's position, obviously not. Derbyshire was very clear in advising his children to seek out friendship among Blacks that were both intelligent and well-socialized [I would assume his children are highly intelligent as is he.] Obviously, you grossly mischaracterized his position.

Obviously, Derbyshire made numerous statements that would be grist for the mill. For some reason, instead of criticizing Derbyshire for what he did write, you felt the need to distort Derbyshire's position to attack a strawman. In most cases, people resort to strawman arguments when they don't have a case. Surely, you were capable of writing a case against Derbyshire without attacking a strawman.

I just found it ironic that you described his children as "White" just after reading Derbyshire's frustration about their being lumped into that category.


Quote
  Because if it does, you know what they say: a dime's worth of accuracy can cost a dollar in confusion. Plus the headline is less punchy. I suppose the second fix below is the punchiest of them all, but unfortunately then you would point out that blacks are part of the "everyone," and round and round we would go.

Quote
Derbyshire; Primer on how/why whites [non-blacks] should eschew blacks gets ass fired by NRO

Quote
Derbyshire; Primer on how/why whites [everyone] should eschew blacks gets ass fired by NRO




So, lying is okay if he is rhetorically more "punchy?"
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2012, 03:41:37 pm »
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There must be a competent racist who will make a better attempt to defend Derbyshire's screed that what BSB is doing. Seriously? Your takeaway is that he advises his son to befriend IWSB (or whatever?) Did you miss the part where he says to do it because it inoculates against accusations of racism?
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2012, 04:05:00 pm »
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I just want to know how this is going to affect the RNC's urban outreach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIbNYNZj7u4
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2012, 04:11:11 pm »
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There must be a competent racist who will make a better attempt to defend Derbyshire's screed that what BSB is doing. Seriously? Your takeaway is that he advises his son to befriend IWSB (or whatever?) Did you miss the part where he says to do it because it inoculates against accusations of racism?

Ok, I'll bite. Wink

The best line of defense one can take is to say that Blacks here is not a racial group (as evidenced by his initial points) but a cultural one. So, the cause of these differences aren't racial but more complex. Social injustice historically can be part of it for example. The legacy of slavery. And so on.

Because crime rates ARE higher among blacks, aren't they? And there is a lot of racial hostility in the US. So, while we all agree that we should, as citizens in the political process, work to remedy historical injustices and promote more racial understanding, as parents we must accept the realities already there. And those include not venturing into areas where there a lots of criminal gangs with a good reason to hate you basedon your skin colour.

That should beat Bob, at least...
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2012, 04:23:14 pm »
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Derbyshire makes Charles Murray look intellectual... Seriously, guys, you who live on the other side of the Atlantic but still speak English, where do you find such people?
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2012, 04:26:46 pm »
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Derbyshire makes Charles Murray look intellectual... Seriously, guys, you who live on the other side of the Atlantic but still speak English, where do you find such people?

The weird part is not that they can be found, but that someone wants to find them. Tongue
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2012, 04:40:22 pm »
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Derbyshire makes Charles Murray look intellectual... Seriously, guys, you who live on the other side of the Atlantic but still speak English, where do you find such people?

The weird part is not that they can be found, but that someone wants to find them. Tongue

Oh, In America, I assumed that they can always be found...
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2012, 04:50:43 pm »
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There must be a competent racist who will make a better attempt to defend Derbyshire's screed that what BSB is doing. Seriously? Your takeaway is that he advises his son to befriend IWSB (or whatever?) Did you miss the part where he says to do it because it inoculates against accusations of racism?

Apparently, you failed to read where I noted that statement by Derbyshire to be offensive. I just happen to believe that he was being sincere. Apparently, you, like Torie, feel the need to argue against a strawman rather than Derbyshire. Derbyshire simply did not state that his children should seek out "IWSBs" because it would inoculate them against charges of "racism." He merely listed that as one benefit. He listed the normal pleasures of friendship as another benefit. Presumably, there is the benefit of meeting people from different cultures/worldviews.  I'm neither "defending" or "attacking" Derbyshire. I am opposing lying about what he wrote.

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« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2012, 05:05:28 pm »
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There must be a competent racist who will make a better attempt to defend Derbyshire's screed that what BSB is doing. Seriously? Your takeaway is that he advises his son to befriend IWSB (or whatever?) Did you miss the part where he says to do it because it inoculates against accusations of racism?

Ok, I'll bite. Wink

The best line of defense one can take is to say that Blacks here is not a racial group (as evidenced by his initial points) but a cultural one. So, the cause of these differences aren't racial but more complex. Social injustice historically can be part of it for example. The legacy of slavery. And so on.

Because crime rates ARE higher among blacks, aren't they? And there is a lot of racial hostility in the US. So, while we all agree that we should, as citizens in the political process, work to remedy historical injustices and promote more racial understanding, as parents we must accept the realities already there. And those include not venturing into areas where there a lots of criminal gangs with a good reason to hate you basedon your skin colour.

That should beat Bob, at least...

Since I wasn't attempting to defend or oppose Derbyshire, you were unopposed. I was merely objecting to the gross distortion of what Derbyshire actually wrote.


I'm sure we have all read news stories like the one I read about how a German couple visiting Miami Beach were robbed and murdered when they entered a bad neighborhood. Everyone here knows there are no-go areas.

I would merely ask would it really be "racist" to suggest that children stay as far away as possible from towns in which the English National soccer team is going to visit?
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« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2012, 05:47:30 pm »
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There must be a competent racist who will make a better attempt to defend Derbyshire's screed that what BSB is doing. Seriously? Your takeaway is that he advises his son to befriend IWSB (or whatever?) Did you miss the part where he says to do it because it inoculates against accusations of racism?

Ok, I'll bite. Wink

The best line of defense one can take is to say that Blacks here is not a racial group (as evidenced by his initial points) but a cultural one. So, the cause of these differences aren't racial but more complex. Social injustice historically can be part of it for example. The legacy of slavery. And so on.

Because crime rates ARE higher among blacks, aren't they? And there is a lot of racial hostility in the US. So, while we all agree that we should, as citizens in the political process, work to remedy historical injustices and promote more racial understanding, as parents we must accept the realities already there. And those include not venturing into areas where there a lots of criminal gangs with a good reason to hate you basedon your skin colour.

That should beat Bob, at least...

Well, first of all, I agree that this is cultural, not racial.  I however live in a "bad neighborhood," supposedly, 90%+ African American, and my block has not had a single break-in in the 13 years I've lived here.  We had one shooting, a suicide, and he was visiting relatives. 

Judge the people by their merits, not the melanin in their skin, or lack thereof.  Smiley
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The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
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