CO: PPP: Obama up double-digits
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  CO: PPP: Obama up double-digits
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Author Topic: CO: PPP: Obama up double-digits  (Read 11567 times)
AmericanNation
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« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2012, 03:11:26 PM »

wow!,

 not paying anything toward your pension = "paying for their pension themselves after all"

and

"deferred compensation" = I get paid after I stop working via "Magic"
No, "deferred compensation", meaning "I'll take some of my salary now, and put some of it into a pension fund instead."


OK I read your link, "Wisconsin taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions while public employees contributed only $55.4 million." I think that comes out to 0.4%...  wow and 99.6% magically appears. 
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ajb
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« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2012, 03:16:13 PM »

wow!,

 not paying anything toward your pension = "paying for their pension themselves after all"

and

"deferred compensation" = I get paid after I stop working via "Magic"
No, "deferred compensation", meaning "I'll take some of my salary now, and put some of it into a pension fund instead."


OK I read your link, "From Governor Walker’s standpoint, however, it’s an issue of equity. From 2000 to 2009, the governor says, Wisconsin taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions while public employees contributed only $55.4 million.

" I think that comes out to 0.4%...  wow and 99.6% magically appears. 
Fixed your quote from the stateline.org piece. From the Forbes (Forbes, mind you!) piece, citing a piece on tax.com:

"Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers."
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2012, 03:19:43 PM »

we should move this over to a more aptly titled board
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=143831.90
Scott Walker recall goes live
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2012, 03:23:26 PM »

Gass3268, So outside of the statehouse not one extremist? ? ?

How about the majority of people in Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties?

You do realize modest adjustments to balance budgets and improve the economy isn't exactly a definition of extreme right?

Yeah but taking away a right is a definition of extremism.

Sigh, Collective Bargaining is not a right, it is a privilege.  Walker gave public employees the privilege to opt out of these belligerent Unions.  I know that expansion of freedom is scary to you, but it is not extremist.  Thinking you have a right from God to Bargain against the taxpayers of Wisconsin IS extremist.

Ozaukee, Waukesha and Washington Counties are the most productive, highest tax-paying people in the state, what is extreme about them?      

I guess I'm with Ronald Reagan on this one:
"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland. The values that have inspired other dissidents under Communist domination.  They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.  They remind us that freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.  You and I must protect and preserve freedom here or it will not be passed on to our children.  Today the workers in Poland are showing a new generation not how high is the price of freedom but how much it is worth that price."

Also:

"I happen to be the only president of a union ever to be a candidate for President of the United States.
As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies. "

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/9.1.80.html

It's a measure of today's Republican party that it now views defending something Ronald Reagan saw as a bulwark against totalitarianism makes you in to a leftist extremist.

Reagan was probably talking about private sector Unions.  He ordered the air traffic controllers back to work and desertified that Union as I recall.  

I guess I'm with FDR on this one:
"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government."
And the last prominent American Socialist
Frank Zeidler, Milwaukee's mayor in the 1950s and the last card-carrying Socialist to head a major U.S. city, supported labor. But in 1969, the progressive icon wrote that the rise of unions in government work put a competing power in charge of public business next to elected officials. Government unions "can mean considerable loss of control over the budget, and hence over tax rates," he warned.  There was "a revolutionary principle rather quietly at work in American government," he wrote.

I think I heard that 100 decibel principle at work in the Wisconsin capitol last year.  It sounded something like "I will not pay a dime toward my million dollar pension!!!"

Walker's modest shift is to try securing necessary government at a better price. The public unions, whose model depends on making government labor as costly as taxpayers will bear, object.  
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2012, 04:23:40 PM »

AmericanNation, have you heard of a user named CaDan? Or possibly Derek?
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2012, 04:34:10 PM »

nope
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Gass3268
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« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2012, 06:25:29 PM »

we should move this over to a more aptly titled board
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=143831.90
Scott Walker recall goes live

I agree and I apologizing for being partially responsible for turning this Colorado Presidential poll into a Wisconsin Recall debate.
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Person Man
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« Reply #82 on: April 12, 2012, 05:46:38 PM »

we should move this over to a more aptly titled board
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=143831.90
Scott Walker recall goes live

I agree and I apologizing for being partially responsible for turning this Colorado Presidential poll into a Wisconsin Recall debate.

Well, there is one thing we can all agree on- It's radical to call a reactionary a reactionary and its reactionary to call a radical a radical... though we still disagree to which point one is greater.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2012, 01:03:41 PM »

i wouldn't dance on CO's grave just yet. Although the CO GOP has their issues, they have a huge base of voters in most of El Paso, Douglas and pockets of Arapahoe and Jefferson counties. Those areas are also the fastest growing parts of the state. Also, Buck actually won Indies in 2010 despite being a flawed candidate. I think that Colorado will probably trend towards the democrats in the future but if you've read any of Sean Trende's book, a lot of trends can be suddenly reversed.

The CO GOP is dominated by the Religious Right, which could work in Alabama or Louisiana but doesn't bode well for Colorado's demographics. This isn't the 1990s anymore-people like James Dobson are extremely polarizing in Colorado, and I would dare say that a strong majority are either opposed to him or turned off by his rhetoric, especially the younger generation of Coloradans.

If you compare Colorado to, say, Arizona, which has a much stronger GOP (it helps that the white population in Arizona is less educated, on average, than the Colorado GOP), plus a rather weak Democratic Party (unlike Colorado), it becomes clear why Independents in Colorado would be more inclined to vote Democratic than they are in Arizona.

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