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| | |-+  Young man obtains voting ballot under Attorney General Eric Holder's name
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Author Topic: Young man obtains voting ballot under Attorney General Eric Holder's name  (Read 1090 times)
krazen1211
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« on: April 12, 2012, 08:54:56 am »
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

In a new video (below) provided to Breitbart.com, James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas demonstrates why Holder should stop attacking voter ID laws--by walking into Holder’s voting precinct and showing the world that anyone can obtain Eric Holder’s primary ballot. Literally.

The video shows a young man entering a Washington, DC polling place at 3401 Nebraska Avenue, NW, on primary day of this year--April 3, 2012--and giving Holder’s name and address. The poll worker promptly offers the young man Holder’s ballot to vote.

The young man then suggests that he should show his ID; the poll worker, in compliance with DC law, states: “You don’t need it. It’s all right. As long as you’re in here, you’re on our list, and that’s who you say you are, you’re okay.”




It's truly amazing how easy this is. Even more amazing is that the solution is incredibly obvious yet some simpletons try to resist one of the most popular public policies in the United States.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 09:05:58 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 09:07:18 am »
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I have warned of this stuff before, but this is too good ... Smiley

That's why I find it good that here in Austria, and I guess also in Germany, the government or your town sends you your voter information card via post, with which you have to go to the polling place, shows a valid government issued photo ID (only passport, driving license, personal ID counts) and then you get your ballot there and can vote.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 09:12:44 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

The possibility alone that you can potentially commit voter fraud warrants a change in the system to avoid such fraud. Because after the election, who will check the signatures of millions of voters if they are similar to the one on the registration forms ? I wonder how any sane Democrat can oppose voter photo ID.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 09:25:32 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

The possibility alone that you can potentially commit voter fraud warrants a change in the system to avoid such fraud. Because after the election, who will check the signatures of millions of voters if they are similar to the one on the registration forms ? I wonder how any sane Democrat can oppose voter photo ID.

There have been plenty of cases where investigations were conducted using that same method and it showed that fraud was virtually non-existent. I'm only opposed to voter photo ID because it would disenfranchise a large portion of the electorate over what I view to be a non-issue. Minnesota's alternative is good though:

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With an electronic “poll book,” eligible voters who have lost an ID or no longer carry one could come to the polling place and have their electronic information pulled up from state records, Ritchie said.

He said about 84,000 Minnesota voters don’t carry photo ID, but in many cases, they would have photos in the state drivers’ database. For those who don’t, another ID could be scanned in or a photo could be taken at the polling place.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 09:33:30 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

It's a good thing, then, that nobody has shown in court that they would be 'excluded' from voting. Let alone a 'sizable percentage' of someones.
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Franzl
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 09:45:25 am »
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I have warned of this stuff before, but this is too good ... Smiley

That's why I find it good that here in Austria, and I guess also in Germany, the government or your town sends you your voter information card via post, with which you have to go to the polling place, shows a valid government issued photo ID (only passport, driving license, personal ID counts) and then you get your ballot there and can vote.

Well, de jure, at least. Our little town in Southern Hesse (at least in my precinct) never really checks IDs.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2012, 09:47:26 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

The possibility alone that you can potentially commit voter fraud warrants a change in the system to avoid such fraud. Because after the election, who will check the signatures of millions of voters if they are similar to the one on the registration forms ? I wonder how any sane Democrat can oppose voter photo ID.

There have been plenty of cases where investigations were conducted using that same method and it showed that fraud was virtually non-existent. I'm only opposed to voter photo ID because it would disenfranchise a large portion of the electorate over what I view to be a non-issue. Minnesota's alternative is good though:

Quote
With an electronic “poll book,” eligible voters who have lost an ID or no longer carry one could come to the polling place and have their electronic information pulled up from state records, Ritchie said.

He said about 84,000 Minnesota voters don’t carry photo ID, but in many cases, they would have photos in the state drivers’ database. For those who don’t, another ID could be scanned in or a photo could be taken at the polling place.

Would you also be opposed if there's a photo voter ID law that provides free government issued photo voter IDs to people who cannot afford it ? Because if we use the standard price of a government ID (ca. 25$) and this ID is valid for 10 years, the average annual price per voter would be just 2.5$ to subsidize a free voter id. In a state like North Carolina with 6 million voters (out of which an estimated 20% have no ID), the annual cost for providing free IDs would then only amount to 3 million $. A very small sum in my opinion if you consider what is wasted each year in other areas. And many of these 20% who don't have an ID are not even low-income earners, they just never needed one. So, the annual cost is probably even lower.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 09:52:58 am »
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The fundamental question is this:

Do you want to make sure that the franchise is extended to as many people as possible, or do you want to make sure that the people who are not eligible to vote are prevented from doing so?

If you want the former, you have to be willing to accept that there will be a few cases of fraud.

If you want the latter, you have to be willing to accept that millions of eligible voters, mostly those with some form of economic or social disadvantage, will be prevented from voting.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 09:54:45 am »
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I have warned of this stuff before, but this is too good ... Smiley

That's why I find it good that here in Austria, and I guess also in Germany, the government or your town sends you your voter information card via post, with which you have to go to the polling place, shows a valid government issued photo ID (only passport, driving license, personal ID counts) and then you get your ballot there and can vote.

Well, de jure, at least. Our little town in Southern Hesse (at least in my precinct) never really checks IDs.

Yep, here too. But there are so many precincts here that there are rarely any lines and the poll commission knows most of the voters in the precinct anyway because these people are usually your neighbours and if you give them your voter information card which has your electoral register number on it anyway, there's almost no need to check for a voter ID, (even though if I were strict I would demand it ... Tongue) But if you have your voter information card with you, it's almost certain that no other person is impersonating you and voting in your name, unless that person has broken into your house and stole your voter information card. I have also seen that the poll commission asks for ID's of people they don't know or have previously moved into town. What about that in your town, Franzl ?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 09:59:10 am by Tender Branson »Logged
TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 09:56:28 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

It's a good thing, then, that nobody has shown in court that they would be 'excluded' from voting. Let alone a 'sizable percentage' of someones.

You're obfuscating the issue: a large portion of eligible voters (~10 percent) don't have photo ids and therefore couldn't participate in the process without obtaining one. I know you don't care about these individuals just like you don't care about public workers, teachers and minorities but this is actually a legitimate concern for people who posses the ability to empathize.
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 09:58:07 am »
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The fundamental question is this:

Do you want to make sure that the franchise is extended to as many people as possible, or do you want to make sure that the people who are not eligible to vote are prevented from doing so?

If you want the former, you have to be willing to accept that there will be a few cases of fraud.

If you want the latter, you have to be willing to accept that millions of eligible voters, mostly those with some form of economic or social disadvantage, will be prevented from voting.

No, you can have the latter and have ID's for all people, like in almost any other western country. But due to the polarizing political system, apparently it cannot be done in the US, even though it would be easy, if the GOP/DEMs would display some common sense once in a while and work for the people and not against each other.
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homelycooking
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 10:01:09 am »
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No, you can have the latter and have ID's for all people, like in almost any other western country. But due to the polarizing political system, apparently it cannot be done in the US, even though it would be easy, if the GOP/DEMs would display some common sense once in a while and work for the people and not against each other.

Yes, but only if those IDs are provided without monetary or opportunity cost to all people, regardless of spatial, economic and cultural situation. Anything more would constitute a poll tax.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 10:05:03 am »
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Would you also be opposed if there's a photo voter ID law that provides free government issued photo voter IDs to people who cannot afford it ?

Yes, but given the intent of the law is to discourage people from voting rather than to prevent fraud, and because many Americans have a visceral reaction to mandatory ID even though we effectively have it already, that part of the equation simply can't or won't happen. It would take constant vigilance to ensure that the ID procurement process isn't made too expensive or difficult for voters to serve the main goal of these laws.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 10:05:16 am »
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Does this thread even warrant a response? Yes, if you deliberately look up the address and full legal name of voters with the specific intent to lie about your identity at the voting booth, you will succeed. However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

It's a good thing, then, that nobody has shown in court that they would be 'excluded' from voting. Let alone a 'sizable percentage' of someones.

You're obfuscating the issue: a large portion of eligible voters (~10 percent) don't have photo ids and therefore couldn't participate in the process without obtaining one. I know you don't care about these individuals just like you don't care about public workers, teachers and minorities but this is actually a legitimate concern for people who posses the ability to empathize.

The judiciary has already decided that the obvious, logical response to these eligible voters is to either vote without one under the appropriate provisions or to obtain one.

But you just made the rest of this up. The vast bulk of the nation supports voter ID. How nice of you to insult them.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2012, 10:10:53 am »
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Just implement automatic/universal voter registration and throw out any votes that don't match up against the voter database (deceased, multiple votes per person, etc).

Oh wait, that would make voting easier and lead to tens of millions of more people voting. Can't have that right?
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 10:36:12 am »

Branson, the cash cost is not an issue.  Because of the poll tax amendment and the Voting Rights Act, the various voter photo laws all provide some option for obtaining the needed ID without paying cash.  This is one of those meaningless wedge issues that both parties like to push.

There is very little demonstrated voter fraud, examples as such as what krazen could be dealt with without requiring a photo ID (SC law at present requires that an ID be presented, of which the voter registration card with no photo is one of the options), and these laws leave open other avenues to fraud (such as obtaining absentee ballots by mail) that aren't addressed by photo ID.

Conversely, despite the claims of voter disenfranchisement, very little of that would happen under voter photo. For the most part, difficulties in obtaining photo ID are had mainly by people in their 50s and older who were born in the era before issuing birth certificates became pretty much automatic.  The elderly are generally covered by more liberal rules in being able to vote absentee, and I'm not aware of a single jurisdiction that requires a photo ID to accompany a mailed in request for an absentee ballot.

If it were not for the fact that those affected most come from groups that tend to vote Democratic, this issue wouldn''t get anywhere near the heated invective it does.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2012, 10:59:11 am »
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

In a new video (below) provided to Breitbart.com, James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas

Stopped reading here. Absolutely nothing that trash O'Keefe posts should be considered of any value whatsoever.
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memphis
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2012, 11:34:44 am »
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Breaking the law is possible. Who knew? We'd better ban guns fast. Unintended consequences be damned. Somebody might break the law with one.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2012, 11:43:47 am »
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Breaking the law is possible. Who knew? We'd better ban guns fast. Unintended consequences be damned. Somebody might break the law with one.

That's one of the reasons of course why firearms require the appropriate ID to procure and carry in most states.
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 11:48:29 am »
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Now we know that conservatives are well versed in committing voter fraud, that's useful information that will help prevent that.

No one ever said voter fraud can't happen, it's just that it doesn't happen as often as some people would like to say it does. The ID laws are mainly about election results, not any actual fraud. No heavily Republican areas are going enforce ID laws, it's all about areas that don't vote that way.
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2012, 02:19:18 pm »
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However, there's no record of this voting fraud happening at a rate worth excluding a sizable percentage of voters from the rolls.

^ All that matters during this conversation. No need to say anything more.
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memphis
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2012, 02:40:52 pm »
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Breaking the law is possible. Who knew? We'd better ban guns fast. Unintended consequences be damned. Somebody might break the law with one.

That's one of the reasons of course why firearms require the appropriate ID to procure and carry in most states.
And yet the law can still be broken if somebody wants to. Which is all this stunt demonstrates. Not anything groundbreaking.
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2012, 03:50:41 pm »
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Just implement automatic/universal voter registration and throw out any votes that don't match up against the voter database (deceased, multiple votes per person, etc).

Oh wait, that would make voting easier and lead to tens of millions of more people voting. Can't have that right?
So you would throw out the valid vote along with the invalid one?
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 08:09:50 pm »

Just implement automatic/universal voter registration and throw out any votes that don't match up against the voter database (deceased, multiple votes per person, etc).

Oh wait, that would make voting easier and lead to tens of millions of more people voting. Can't have that right?
So you would throw out the valid vote along with the invalid one?
How do you determine which one was valid?
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