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| | | |-+  FINAL RATIFICATION VOTE PART 2 - AMENDMENTS
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Author Topic: FINAL RATIFICATION VOTE PART 2 - AMENDMENTS  (Read 12375 times)
RG Fritz
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« Reply #75 on: April 01, 2004, 12:38:25 pm »
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Well, that seems rather silly. If that is indeed the case, any voting done on the amendment ought to be declared null and void on that basis, and perhaps voted on again AFTER a written document is produced.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #76 on: April 01, 2004, 12:43:24 pm »
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Well, that seems rather silly. If that is indeed the case, any voting done on the amendment ought to be declared null and void on that basis, and perhaps voted on again AFTER a written document is produced.

Exactly my point.
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« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2004, 12:56:42 pm »
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He voted for it before he voted against it..
and it's none of your business ....


LOL
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Gustaf
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« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2004, 01:26:00 pm »

The reason for the PV amendment was that a poll was made and a lot of discussion as well and there seemed to be a wide-spread popular call for it.

But, even though I voted in favour of it, I am willing to concede that since the vote was so close it should perhaps be redone.
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RG Fritz
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« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2004, 03:21:52 pm »
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My argument has nothing to do with the closeness of the vote, although that is a good point.  How can you vote on an amendment that hasn't even been written down?  

Okay, so I'm a newbie, and this forum is quickly becoming a major addiction for me.  As a newbie, I am trying to understand all the rules of the game.  I asked where this supposedly-passed amendment could be found.  No one seems to be able to answer that question.  

It seems to me that an idea or concept was voted upon.  That is not how Constitutions get amended.  There must be a written document for a vote to take place.  Can you imagine the real Congress passing an amendment without writing it down?

At best, if my understanding of the situation is correct, I would say that an affirmative vote has been passed that an amendment ought to be drafted and voted upon.  Based on the specific language included or not included in the amendment, it is certainly possible that some would vote differently.

If I would be permitted to do so, I would officially submit this complaint to: who?  The President?  Would he do anything about it?  
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #80 on: April 01, 2004, 03:23:52 pm »
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Well, that seems rather silly. If that is indeed the case, any voting done on the amendment ought to be declared null and void on that basis, and perhaps voted on again AFTER a written document is produced.

Exactly my point.

Supersoulty,

Why didn't you ask someone to produce the formal wording of the amendment before the voting ended and the amendment had already passed?  

I would guess it is because you, and everyone else who voted either way, understood what they were voting on.  There was a long thread a few days ago, accompanied by a poll, that explained what preferential voting was, and it was favored in that poll too.

Maybe this is an effort to assure a Democratic/
Progressive majority in the fantasy government, but we ARE the majority of registered voters,  so this system is more fair than a system which would ensure that a Republicans are elected against the will of the majority.
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RG Fritz
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« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2004, 03:36:07 pm »
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There was a long thread a few days ago, accompanied by a poll, that explained what preferential voting was, and it was favored in that poll too.

I have searched high and low for this thread, and I cannot find it.  Can someone please bring it forward?  Or at least tell me what it is called, I have tried to search for threads with "preferential voting" in the subject but had no success.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004, 03:37:24 pm by JLD »Logged

Gustaf
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« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2004, 03:36:20 pm »

My argument has nothing to do with the closeness of the vote, although that is a good point.  How can you vote on an amendment that hasn't even been written down?  

Okay, so I'm a newbie, and this forum is quickly becoming a major addiction for me.  As a newbie, I am trying to understand all the rules of the game.  I asked where this supposedly-passed amendment could be found.  No one seems to be able to answer that question.  

It seems to me that an idea or concept was voted upon.  That is not how Constitutions get amended.  There must be a written document for a vote to take place.  Can you imagine the real Congress passing an amendment without writing it down?

At best, if my understanding of the situation is correct, I would say that an affirmative vote has been passed that an amendment ought to be drafted and voted upon.  Based on the specific language included or not included in the amendment, it is certainly possible that some would vote differently.

If I would be permitted to do so, I would officially submit this complaint to: who?  The President?  Would he do anything about it?  

The president is rarely here, the AFDNC chairman is the only one who seems to take any drastic actions on this forum. Smiley
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2004, 03:48:40 pm »
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Well, that seems rather silly. If that is indeed the case, any voting done on the amendment ought to be declared null and void on that basis, and perhaps voted on again AFTER a written document is produced.

Exactly my point.

Supersoulty,

Why didn't you ask someone to produce the formal wording of the amendment before the voting ended and the amendment had already passed?  

I would guess it is because you, and everyone else who voted either way, understood what they were voting on.  There was a long thread a few days ago, accompanied by a poll, that explained what preferential voting was, and it was favored in that poll too.

Maybe this is an effort to assure a Democratic/
Progressive majority in the fantasy government, but we ARE the majority of registered voters,  so this system is more fair than a system which would ensure that a Republicans are elected against the will of the majority.

I raised objection ot it on several occations.  My point is, how can we pass an Amendement if there is nothing writen down.  I admit, that I am firmly against PV but I think that this raises an interesting point.

Polls don't mean anything.  If we believed all the polls on this site, then the number of people voting for me and GWBFan combined is going to be double that of what Nym will get in June.  Highly unlikly.  The point is that nothing has been writen.  This concern ONLY became apparent to me when our new friend JLD posted that he could not find the amendment acctually writen down.

It doesn't matter if you are the majority of registered voters.  You complain about one man one vote.  I say we should enforce this priciple in this instance.  ANYTHING that pushes ANY agenda should NEVER becmoe a part of this Constitution.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #84 on: April 01, 2004, 06:26:31 pm »
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Well, that seems rather silly. If that is indeed the case, any voting done on the amendment ought to be declared null and void on that basis, and perhaps voted on again AFTER a written document is produced.

Exactly my point.

Supersoulty,

Why didn't you ask someone to produce the formal wording of the amendment before the voting ended and the amendment had already passed?  

I would guess it is because you, and everyone else who voted either way, understood what they were voting on.  There was a long thread a few days ago, accompanied by a poll, that explained what preferential voting was, and it was favored in that poll too.

Maybe this is an effort to assure a Democratic/
Progressive majority in the fantasy government, but we ARE the majority of registered voters,  so this system is more fair than a system which would ensure that a Republicans are elected against the will of the majority.

I raised objection ot it on several occations.  My point is, how can we pass an Amendement if there is nothing writen down.  I admit, that I am firmly against PV but I think that this raises an interesting point.

Polls don't mean anything.  If we believed all the polls on this site, then the number of people voting for me and GWBFan combined is going to be double that of what Nym will get in June.  Highly unlikly.  The point is that nothing has been writen.  This concern ONLY became apparent to me when our new friend JLD posted that he could not find the amendment acctually writen down.

It doesn't matter if you are the majority of registered voters.  You complain about one man one vote.  I say we should enforce this priciple in this instance.  ANYTHING that pushes ANY agenda should NEVER becmoe a part of this Constitution.

I'll admit that the bulletin board format is not the best format for this...it is hard to distinguish between was is "official" and what is not.  So at some point, Lewis took the initiative and declared an official vote on the constitution and the amendments.  It's would be a waste of time to have a argument about the "binding" wording of the PV amendment because everyone knows what it says, or at least they would know if they read the earlier thread.   The case is the same with the electoral districts...you had to go back to earlier threads to figure out what we were actually voting on.  It would be nice if everything was in writing in a single, permanent place, but we had to move forward with what we had.

I agree the poll was mostly meaningless, but does show their was some support for general idea, and some discussion of it, before the real vote was taken.

I think you are co-opting the principle of "one man, one vote" to suit a purpose it was never meant to apply to.  "One man, one vote" means that every person should have a vote, and that everyone's vote should count equally.  For instance, some enlightenment-era thinkers believed that educated people, or people with a certain amount of property should have their votes counted double or triple.  "One man, one vote" stands in opposition to the proposals: it says that everyone should have an equal opportunity to influence the election.  It says nothing on the mechanics of how the votes are counted.   As long as everyone has the same number of votes and they are counted under the same procedure, "one man, one vote" is fulfilled.

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StatesRights
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« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2004, 01:55:22 am »
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When we vote on Amendments why not just put a poll thread up? And vote yes or no so we dont have a million posts?
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2004, 09:57:34 am »
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I assume it is to make sure we only have registered voters voting.
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dunn
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« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2004, 10:07:04 am »
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exectly
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« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2004, 11:02:51 am »
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Thank You Lewis for moving the ball on the pre-Ratification of our pre-Constituation.
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