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Author Topic: Does Romney think that America is full of rich people?  (Read 2010 times)
LastVoter
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« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2012, 07:22:27 pm »
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Also, "You're on your own" general means "Freedom and Free Markets are serfdom." 
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« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 07:23:15 pm »
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This new R-WI troll is great, he's like a computer program that shoves Fox News memes into common sentence structures and prints the result.

Sidenote: The R-WI avatar has a pretty bad history, doesn't it? Not quite equal to the (almost!) entirely negative connotations of R-IN, but it might be getting there.
Wonkish...
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« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 07:31:57 pm »
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Back to the original thread topic, I do think that Romney's mental image of the "average American" is substantially better off than the truth. People surround themselves with other similar people and perceptions get skewed. It's like how in polling, just about everybody reports being middle class. But, again, that's hardly limited to Romney. We could all use a wider breadth of experience. Particularly candidates for President.
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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 07:42:15 pm »
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Thank You.
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 08:25:44 pm »
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Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I have remained consistent, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Nope. From:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I'm sick of the left's "You're on your own" obsession, but I'll bite.  
"You're on your own" is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better thing to hear than: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

to:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
Unless you have a magic plan to reverse a march to serfdom after it starts, than there isn't anything false about the dichotomy and if you honestly think about it for ten minutes you can't deny that.  You might think its 'doomsday-ish.'  IDK how to get around your feelings when referencing the facts of History.  Respectfully, maybe you should get around your feelings and think.

Keep in mind that no "facts" had been provided. Now we're here and there's a definite increase in the quality of your conversational skills.

Quote
The Republicans in Wisconsin have been brilliantly mainstream.

Historically, yes.

Quote
I don't think your "extreme" label can be justified, but I'd listen to your point if you have one.  
FYI
1)Never busted a Union
2)Is there an abortion bill you're talking about?  what's wrong with it?

Besides parts of it being struck down, I'm guessing we won't see eye to eye on what the anti-union bill in your state does. I think we can agree, however, that it certainly eliminated the brilliantly mainstream Republican majority in the Senate. Here's a total of four bills (three anti-abortion, one anti-contraception) that Walker just signed this week.
 

So, you don't like the first one? or the second one is really nice compared to the first one? or the second one is mean?  I'm not sure how you feel about them.  

The majority ended?  The Legislature is out of session.  A senator resigned for family reasons at the end of the session.  She probably didn't like the harassment and death threats either.  She also has a medical practice to run.  

As for the "war on women" stuff.  Didn't manufacturing that issue blow up in Chicago's face the last few days?  
The Wisconsin Dems are pathetically pinning their hopes on it anyway.
Wis Dem Spokesman Zielinski, In Lefty Publication, Admits Collective Bargaining Issue Not Hurting Walker; Dems Will Instead Focus On "War on Women" and "Secret" John Doe
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/04/scott-walker-recall-wisconsin-democrat-union

We got this topic way too off-topic, so I was hesitating to reply but this will be my last response. I meant that you sounded like a 15-year old coming into the topic and as it went on, you brought your conversation up to par. That's all I was really addressing in the first place. As far as the legislature goes, yes, it's closed now. You guys lost two seats in recalls and Pam Galloway was facing one too. I guess she resigned out of fear of losing more than anything. If she had things to worry about in her personal life, she shouldn't have ran for office in 2010, even if there's nothing left to do this cycle (so why resign unless you're afraid of a recall? Death threats, smeath threats). And Chicago had nothing to do with Rosen's comments and we certainly handled it better than Romney with the LL Fair Pay Act. It won't negatively impact Democrats' standing with women. Didn't Walker and the legislature also just repeal an equal pay bill in WI, too? You can PM me if you want to continue the discussion.
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2012, 08:33:37 pm »
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Geez, what's wrong with republicans in WI ?
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« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2012, 08:36:51 pm »
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This new R-WI troll is great, he's like a computer program that shoves Fox News memes into common sentence structures and prints the result.

Sidenote: The R-WI avatar has a pretty bad history, doesn't it? Not quite equal to the (almost!) entirely negative connotations of R-IN, but it might be getting there.
And then there's R-RI, which has been ruined forever by Winfield.

But, back on topic(s), Romney's too rich and Scott Walker's an HP.
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« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2012, 08:39:51 pm »
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You seem to be trying to beat him though.
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« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2012, 09:00:56 pm »
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I don't think he interacted with many people outside of his social class.
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« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2012, 09:21:09 pm »
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I don't think he interacted with many people outside of his social class.

Mitt and Ann have interacted with people of all backgrounds through their charitable activities, including a following list for Ann alone (the exhaustive list will leak the further along we go in the general election campaign):

- Since being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1998, she has been an active Board Member of the New England Chapter of the MS Society. She has been a leading fundraiser for advocacy and research for MS.

- Governor’s Liaison to the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives

- Initiator, Co-Chair and Member of the Faith and Action Committee serving at-risk youth

- United Way Board Member

- United Way Executive Committee

- United Way Community Impact Committee

- Involved with the international program Right to Play

- Volunteers time and leadership to equine therapy programs to physically disadvantaged children

- Volunteers for the annual Scholastic Reading event

- Volunteers for Partners for Youth with Disabilities

- Volunteers for the American Red Cross

- Volunteers for the Perkins School for the Blind

- Was a Board Member for the Massachusetts Children’s Trust Fund

- Received the 2006 Lifetime Achievement Award from Operation Kids

- Director of Best Friends addressing needs of inner-city girls

- Volunteer instructor at Mother Caroline Academy

- Board Member of Families First

- Served on the Women’s Cancer Advisory Board of Massachusetts General Hospital

I feel sorry for Democrats. Consider this a warning on trying to paint the Romneys as if they are the Kerrys. If you keep building this up, the testimonies on behalf of the Romneys are going to destroy your campaign. Barack Obama will end up looking like Marlo Stanfield in the eyes of voters.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:23:34 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2012, 10:34:01 pm »
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I don't think he interacted with many people outside of his social class.

Mitt and Ann have interacted with people of all backgrounds through their charitable activities ...

No wonder Mitt thinks his problems can be fixed by writing a check.  Have the Romneys ever spend leisure time with someone not part of the upper class?  You know, the kind of time where people relax and say what they really think instead of what they think the person writing the check wants to hear?
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« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2012, 11:11:21 pm »
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I don't think he interacted with many people outside of his social class.

Mitt and Ann have interacted with people of all backgrounds through their charitable activities, including a following list for Ann alone (the exhaustive list will leak the further along we go in the general election campaign):

- Since being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1998, she has been an active Board Member of the New England Chapter of the MS Society. She has been a leading fundraiser for advocacy and research for MS.

- Governor’s Liaison to the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives

- Initiator, Co-Chair and Member of the Faith and Action Committee serving at-risk youth

- United Way Board Member

- United Way Executive Committee

- United Way Community Impact Committee

- Involved with the international program Right to Play

- Volunteers time and leadership to equine therapy programs to physically disadvantaged children

- Volunteers for the annual Scholastic Reading event

- Volunteers for Partners for Youth with Disabilities

- Volunteers for the American Red Cross

- Volunteers for the Perkins School for the Blind

- Was a Board Member for the Massachusetts Children’s Trust Fund

- Received the 2006 Lifetime Achievement Award from Operation Kids

- Director of Best Friends addressing needs of inner-city girls

- Volunteer instructor at Mother Caroline Academy

- Board Member of Families First

- Served on the Women’s Cancer Advisory Board of Massachusetts General Hospital

I feel sorry for Democrats. Consider this a warning on trying to paint the Romneys as if they are the Kerrys. If you keep building this up, the testimonies on behalf of the Romneys are going to destroy your campaign. Barack Obama will end up looking like Marlo Stanfield in the eyes of voters.

Yes, after reading this I realize the election is all but over for Obama.

I think the witty Marlo Stanfield reference is what really convinced me. Obama is totally comparable to an inner city drug lord. Spot on comparison!

this guy=President Obama, obviously
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 11:21:11 pm by cope1989 »Logged

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« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2012, 12:13:56 am »
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I don't even like the use of the word 'liberalism' because it becomes completely meaningless.  

More meaningful than 'conservatism' given the FACT that its democratic capitalism's one - and only - hegemonic ideology. Furthermore, there is nothing Burkean, even remotely rational, about the contemporary GOP

Exactly my point! you are talking about Classical Liberalism which is probably a good way to describe my ideology - (in part anyway...complexities).  FDR was perhaps the antithesis of Classical Liberalism.  Thus, 'Liberalism' starts meaning nothing and everything and it's a junk loaded word.  You can't call Thomas Jefferson and Fidel Castro "Liberals" it drives me nuts.       

Classical liberalism did not end slavery, the last vestiges of serfdom, the subordination of women to men, child labor, monopoly power, racism, militarism, or the subjection of working people on its own. Classical liberalism may have been a huge improvement over the elitist statism that preceded it, but it never presented itself as a point at which all progress could end. Classical liberalism provided the tools of later progressive movements that Recognized the necessity of civil liberties, checks and balances, and competitive politics.

... By destroying democracy such people as Fidel Castro, Ayatollah Khomeini, Moammar Qaddafi, Hugo Chavez, and Robert Mugabe are not liberals any more than Adolf Hitler and Agosto Pinochet.     
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« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2012, 12:29:38 am »
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I don't even like the use of the word 'liberalism' because it becomes completely meaningless.  

More meaningful than 'conservatism' given the FACT that its democratic capitalism's one - and only - hegemonic ideology. Furthermore, there is nothing Burkean, even remotely rational, about the contemporary GOP

Exactly my point! you are talking about Classical Liberalism which is probably a good way to describe my ideology - (in part anyway...complexities).  FDR was perhaps the antithesis of Classical Liberalism.  Thus, 'Liberalism' starts meaning nothing and everything and it's a junk loaded word.  You can't call Thomas Jefferson and Fidel Castro "Liberals" it drives me nuts.       

Classical liberalism did not end slavery, the last vestiges of serfdom, the subordination of women to men, child labor, monopoly power, racism, militarism, or the subjection of working people on its own. Classical liberalism may have been a huge improvement over the elitist statism that preceded it, but it never presented itself as a point at which all progress could end. Classical liberalism provided the tools of later progressive movements that Recognized the necessity of civil liberties, checks and balances, and competitive politics.

... By destroying democracy such people as Fidel Castro, Ayatollah Khomeini, Moammar Qaddafi, Hugo Chavez, and Robert Mugabe are not liberals any more than Adolf Hitler and Agosto Pinochet.     

+1000.

"Classical" liberalism became reactionary conservatism a long time ago.
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« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2012, 12:34:10 am »
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Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I have remained consistent, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Nope. From:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I'm sick of the left's "You're on your own" obsession, but I'll bite.  
"You're on your own" is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better thing to hear than: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

to:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
Unless you have a magic plan to reverse a march to serfdom after it starts, than there isn't anything false about the dichotomy and if you honestly think about it for ten minutes you can't deny that.  You might think its 'doomsday-ish.'  IDK how to get around your feelings when referencing the facts of History.  Respectfully, maybe you should get around your feelings and think.

Keep in mind that no "facts" had been provided. Now we're here and there's a definite increase in the quality of your conversational skills.

Quote
The Republicans in Wisconsin have been brilliantly mainstream.

Historically, yes.

Quote
I don't think your "extreme" label can be justified, but I'd listen to your point if you have one.  
FYI
1)Never busted a Union
2)Is there an abortion bill you're talking about?  what's wrong with it?

Besides parts of it being struck down, I'm guessing we won't see eye to eye on what the anti-union bill in your state does. I think we can agree, however, that it certainly eliminated the brilliantly mainstream Republican majority in the Senate. Here's a total of four bills (three anti-abortion, one anti-contraception) that Walker just signed this week.
 


Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Ohio, Indiana, and Florida have become laboratories for extremist ideology in liberal-to-moderate states. Perhaps Virginia is next.  The GOP in those states operates with different methods, but put them together and one can just imagine what is untended when the potential for repressive power is imposed upon the states slower to adopt the Hard Right as the ideology of the day. The difference between them is emphasis so far, but don't let that fool you. The techniques are being refined for making places like San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, and even New York City unable to stand up to the power of a Hard Right that has contempt for due process, liberal tradition, and rule of law.  

It's for cheap labor, a high birth rate, the degradation of workers' rights, the fire sale of the public sector to rapacious profiteers, the transformation of public schools into propaganda mills, the peonization of the middle class, and the gutting of local control. I have yet to see militarism, racism (except in Arizona), or destruction of civil liberties as objectives... but I wouldn't trust the current GOP with those if it got the majorities with which to impose Constitutional mischief.    

I certainly hope that I am wrong -- but I can imagine a new version of Apartheid imposed upon America based upon where one's politics lie, and in which the job of a policeman or schoolteacher -- or for that matter an accountant ... let alone having a chance to attend school that allows one to learn what it takes to be middle-class in America -- depends upon being a political hack.    
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« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2012, 12:49:51 am »
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Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I have remained consistent, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Nope. From:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I'm sick of the left's "You're on your own" obsession, but I'll bite.  
"You're on your own" is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better thing to hear than: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

to:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
Unless you have a magic plan to reverse a march to serfdom after it starts, than there isn't anything false about the dichotomy and if you honestly think about it for ten minutes you can't deny that.  You might think its 'doomsday-ish.'  IDK how to get around your feelings when referencing the facts of History.  Respectfully, maybe you should get around your feelings and think.

Keep in mind that no "facts" had been provided. Now we're here and there's a definite increase in the quality of your conversational skills.

Quote
The Republicans in Wisconsin have been brilliantly mainstream.

Historically, yes.

Quote
I don't think your "extreme" label can be justified, but I'd listen to your point if you have one.  
FYI
1)Never busted a Union
2)Is there an abortion bill you're talking about?  what's wrong with it?

Besides parts of it being struck down, I'm guessing we won't see eye to eye on what the anti-union bill in your state does. I think we can agree, however, that it certainly eliminated the brilliantly mainstream Republican majority in the Senate. Here's a total of four bills (three anti-abortion, one anti-contraception) that Walker just signed this week.
 


Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Ohio, Indiana, and Florida have become laboratories for extremist ideology in liberal-to-moderate states. Perhaps Virginia is next.  The GOP in those states operates with different methods, but put them together and one can just imagine what is untended when the potential for repressive power is imposed upon the states slower to adopt the Hard Right as the ideology of the day. The difference between them is emphasis so far, but don't let that fool you. The techniques are being refined for making places like San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, and even New York City unable to stand up to the power of a Hard Right that has contempt for due process, liberal tradition, and rule of law.  

It's for cheap labor, a high birth rate, the degradation of workers' rights, the fire sale of the public sector to rapacious profiteers, the transformation of public schools into propaganda mills, the peonization of the middle class, and the gutting of local control. I have yet to see militarism, racism (except in Arizona), or destruction of civil liberties as objectives... but I wouldn't trust the current GOP with those if it got the majorities with which to impose Constitutional mischief.    

I certainly hope that I am wrong -- but I can imagine a new version of Apartheid imposed upon America based upon where one's politics lie, and in which the job of a policeman or schoolteacher -- or for that matter an accountant ... let alone having a chance to attend school that allows one to learn what it takes to be middle-class in America -- depends upon being a political hack.    
Seattle is next level of difficulty, Rob McKenna will get to practice these techniques on Washington State.
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« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2012, 01:15:35 am »
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Back to the question... The contrast merits making.

I am satisfied that Barack Obama learned some things as a community organizer. He met lots of people who did hard blue-collar work for a living. He dealt with people like schoolteachers and social workers. He met cops and parole officers. I am sure that he figured that the criminals who mugged grandmothers  for social security checks  were not so much misguided souls in need of help as they were predators as untrustworthy as big cats on the loose. He recognized that drugs degraded such humanity as addicts had.

For a liberal politician he has no bleeding heart. This is just as well. Having an excessively optimistic view of human nature could have made him into another Jimmy Carter and a political disaster.  

.......

It's easy for those brought up in privilege to have a distorted view of reality. The only poor people that they meet frequently are their domestic help whose poverty is hidden on the job through uniforms. They may interact with corporate bureaucracies, but with much insulation from people who struggle to make ends meet. They meet financial analysts and directors of accounting -- not accounting clerks.  As a rule they were not themselves small businessmen who had to deal with customers and working staff. If they encounter waiters they encounter those in the most expensive places and can tip generously. A 20% tip on $500 in meals and drinks is $100, which is a very high amount of income for a waiter even if that must be shared with  bus staff.  

The separation from working-class reality begins early with expensive boarding schools that effectively price out all but rich kids. Thy are unlikely to see fellow students born out of wedlock or kids raised by parents who aren't certifiable adults by behavior. They won't see the kids of such people as farm laborers, salesclerks, assembly-line workers, fast-food counterpeople, bank tellers, or for that matter, teachers, cops, fire fighters, letter carriers, or traveling salespeople.

The only time in which people of privilege can be sure of meeting people in all walks of life is when they are drafted into military service or enlist in the intention to avoid becoming "light infantry" (a/k/a cannon fodder), in which case,

Quote
This is the Army, Mr. Jones/
No private rooms or telephones/
You had your breakfast in bed before/
But you won't have it there anymore!


(Irving Berlin)

But those lyrics didn't apply to him.


He has been dealing with the so-called political and economic 'experts' who suggest the same solution for economic woes -- cut taxes for the rich, weaken unions that interfere in profits, make it easy to shift work to the places with the cheapest labor, and gut regulation of business. This is not what one would expect of someone struggling to make ends meet -- who might find a job in the public sector far preferable to cashiering in a dollar store soon after graduating from college with a substantial student loan.    

 
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« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2012, 08:34:00 am »
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Not to pick on Ann Romney, who I generally respect and who is facing tough health care battles, but sitting on the boards of charities and planning their fundraisers and social events is exactly what wealthy women in Ann Romney's position do. It mostly involves spending time with other wealthy individuals. It's better than lounging on a yacht, but it doesn't imply that she's working in the trenches like a real volunteer.
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« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2012, 11:32:34 am »
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Romney is known to be cheap- he flies coach for example... which is where he had his brawl with the rapper
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« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2012, 11:55:10 am »
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Romney is known to be cheap- he flies coach for example... which is where he had his brawl with the rapper

I've seen his stables in NH, his property adjoins a friend's - they are larger than my house and a lot nicer. Some people are selectively thrifty but spend money like crazy elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge Romney is no spendthrift, but nor is he a miser.
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« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2012, 12:07:21 pm »
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Romney is known to be cheap- he flies coach for example... which is where he had his brawl with the rapper
Wouldn't that imply he likes to fly first class because normal rappers like to show off their money?(LMFAO isn't normal though).
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« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2012, 12:14:03 pm »
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Romney is known to be cheap- he flies coach for example... which is where he had his brawl with the rapper

I've seen his stables in NH, his property adjoins a friend's - they are larger than my house and a lot nicer. Some people are selectively thrifty but spend money like crazy elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge Romney is no spendthrift, but nor is he a miser.
You seem like a sensible left-leaning person so while we're talking about how much money Romney spends I feel I must ask why some people on the left, particularly the Keynesians, are annoyed about Romney spending so much of his money on nice stuff, while he's really just pumping his money into the economy?
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« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2012, 12:39:35 pm »
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You mean there are actual poor people in America? I don't see it.
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« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2012, 04:53:59 pm »
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You mean there are actual poor people in America? I don't see it.

not sure if troll
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« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2012, 07:01:50 pm »
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Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I have remained consistent, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Nope. From:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
I'm sick of the left's "You're on your own" obsession, but I'll bite.  
"You're on your own" is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better thing to hear than: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

to:

Quote from: AmericanNation link=topic=152118.msg3262509#msg3262509
Unless you have a magic plan to reverse a march to serfdom after it starts, than there isn't anything false about the dichotomy and if you honestly think about it for ten minutes you can't deny that.  You might think its 'doomsday-ish.'  IDK how to get around your feelings when referencing the facts of History.  Respectfully, maybe you should get around your feelings and think.

Keep in mind that no "facts" had been provided. Now we're here and there's a definite increase in the quality of your conversational skills.

Quote
The Republicans in Wisconsin have been brilliantly mainstream.

Historically, yes.

Quote
I don't think your "extreme" label can be justified, but I'd listen to your point if you have one.  
FYI
1)Never busted a Union
2)Is there an abortion bill you're talking about?  what's wrong with it?

Besides parts of it being struck down, I'm guessing we won't see eye to eye on what the anti-union bill in your state does. I think we can agree, however, that it certainly eliminated the brilliantly mainstream Republican majority in the Senate. Here's a total of four bills (three anti-abortion, one anti-contraception) that Walker just signed this week.
 


Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Ohio, Indiana, and Florida have become laboratories for extremist ideology in liberal-to-moderate states. Perhaps Virginia is next.  The GOP in those states operates with different methods, but put them together and one can just imagine what is untended when the potential for repressive power is imposed upon the states slower to adopt the Hard Right as the ideology of the day. The difference between them is emphasis so far, but don't let that fool you. The techniques are being refined for making places like San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, and even New York City unable to stand up to the power of a Hard Right that has contempt for due process, liberal tradition, and rule of law.  

It's for cheap labor, a high birth rate, the degradation of workers' rights, the fire sale of the public sector to rapacious profiteers, the transformation of public schools into propaganda mills, the peonization of the middle class, and the gutting of local control. I have yet to see militarism, racism (except in Arizona), or destruction of civil liberties as objectives... but I wouldn't trust the current GOP with those if it got the majorities with which to impose Constitutional mischief.    

I certainly hope that I am wrong -- but I can imagine a new version of Apartheid imposed upon America based upon where one's politics lie, and in which the job of a policeman or schoolteacher -- or for that matter an accountant ... let alone having a chance to attend school that allows one to learn what it takes to be middle-class in America -- depends upon being a political hack.    
Seattle is next level of difficulty, Rob McKenna will get to practice these techniques on Washington State.

I seriously like these conspiracy theories.  They at least attempt to weave a coherent thread of logic.  That is something that more mainstream democrat propaganda lacks (Logic). 

So, since Republicans are evil and secretly destroying america we should vote for democrats who openly advocate destructive policies.  Wait, but we'll lie about the last part.     

I want to know,
who is coordinating this massive project?
what is the end goal?  Power? 

I sometimes think that type of theory could be possible, but you would need the democrats to be intentionally repulsive in order to drive people toward the Neo-Fascist GOP.  Hey wait, repulsive democrats both driving people toward the GOP and wielding reckless power because the people not repulsed would follow them anywhere....  might be on to something   
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