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| | |-+  Nazi Party Registers Their First Washington Lobbyist.
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Author Topic: Nazi Party Registers Their First Washington Lobbyist.  (Read 1760 times)
opebo
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« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 09:43:23 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
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Vosem
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« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 09:45:05 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
Capitalism ≠ slavery.
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Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
opebo
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« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2012, 09:54:57 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
Capitalism ≠ slavery.

There are some small differences in detail, but the same power-relationships are there.
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Vosem
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« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2012, 09:57:52 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
Capitalism ≠ slavery.

There are some small differences in detail, but the same power-relationships are there.

Except they're not. The point of slavery is that I, the slave, do work but don't get paid. The point of capitalism is that I, the worker, do work and get paid. One could make the argument that they are opposites (though I don't think economic concepts really have opposites except in people's heads).
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Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
LastVoter
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« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2012, 09:59:50 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
Capitalism ≠ slavery.

There are some small differences in detail, but the same power-relationships are there.

Except they're not. The point of slavery is that I, the slave, do work but don't get paid. The point of capitalism is that I, the worker, do work and get paid. One could make the argument that they are opposites (though I don't think economic concepts really have opposites except in people's heads).
The point of both is to reduce the worker to subsistence existence. The differences lie in how it's achieved.
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Vosem
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2012, 10:05:25 pm »
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No, the elite has always utilized the majority as serfs or slaves, Vosem.

Let's use a civilization both of us are familiar with: could you explain how this occurs in the modern United States?

Capitalism, Vosem.
Capitalism ≠ slavery.

There are some small differences in detail, but the same power-relationships are there.

Except they're not. The point of slavery is that I, the slave, do work but don't get paid. The point of capitalism is that I, the worker, do work and get paid. One could make the argument that they are opposites (though I don't think economic concepts really have opposites except in people's heads).
The point of both is to reduce the worker to subsistence existence. The differences lie in how it's achieved.

No. The point of slavery is to make the master's life better, and in doing so put the slaves in a position where they have to stay there. The point of capitalism is the freedom to make money and spend it, without interference. The two are close to opposites.
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Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
opebo
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« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2012, 10:09:35 pm »
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The point of both is to reduce the worker to subsistence existence. The differences lie in how it's achieved.

No. The point of slavery is to make the master's life better, and in doing so put the slaves in a position where they have to stay there. The point of capitalism is the freedom to make money and spend it, without interference. The two are close to opposites.

You're wrong there, Vosem.  The purpose of the system is the same - to control society.  After all - how could it be otherwise?  Why would an elite owning class accept a change from 'slavery' to 'capitalism' unless it made controlling society (workers) even better?
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Hatman
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« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2012, 11:13:11 pm »
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The point of slavery is to make the master's life better, and in doing so put the slaves in a position where they have to stay there.

Sounds like capitalism to me.
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Vosem
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« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2012, 05:55:12 am »
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The point of both is to reduce the worker to subsistence existence. The differences lie in how it's achieved.

No. The point of slavery is to make the master's life better, and in doing so put the slaves in a position where they have to stay there. The point of capitalism is the freedom to make money and spend it, without interference. The two are close to opposites.

You're wrong there, Vosem.  The purpose of the system is the same - to control society.  After all - how could it be otherwise?  Why would an elite owning class accept a change from 'slavery' to 'capitalism' unless it made controlling society (workers) even better?

The 'elite owning class' wouldn't because a change from slavery to capitalism doesn't. In the United States, when the North tried to convert the South to capitalism, the South's slave-owners cried bloody murder and fought the bloodiest war in US history. I'm sure you're familiar with it.

The point of slavery is to make the master's life better, and in doing so put the slaves in a position where they have to stay there.

Sounds like capitalism to me.
But in capitalism, there can be rich people, but there can be no masters.
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Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
opebo
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« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2012, 06:23:05 am »
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Sounds like capitalism to me.
But in capitalism, there can be rich people, but there can be no masters.
[/quote]

That's what 'to be rich' means, Vosem - you control other people.  The richer you are, the more people you control and the greater the extent of your control of them.
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angus
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« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2012, 07:43:05 am »
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opebo,
There are a couple of problems with your analysis.  First, the Nazi were not crusty.  They were not the von Romsteins and the barons and the grafs.  Sure, those old Prussian aristocrats jumped aboard after the federal elections of 1932, but the NSDAP was grassroots and humble in origin.  It wasn't top-down policy making originally, but quite the opposite.  Secondly, the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants were around long before the first Bavarian beer hall putsch.  A serious xenophobic, nativist Yankee WASP empresario could do better than call himself a Nazi.  I submit that this is just nouveau bourgeois white trash exploiting poor white trash, and not some conspiracy of elitist fascists such as one finds in the Trilateral Commision and the Princeton Alumni Club.  They would be better off with a French name than a German one.  

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Vosem
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« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2012, 03:16:09 pm »
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Sounds like capitalism to me.
But in capitalism, there can be rich people, but there can be no masters.

That's what 'to be rich' means, Vosem - you control other people.  The richer you are, the more people you control and the greater the extent of your control of them.
[/quote]

No, that isn't what it means. To be rich means to have money. The richer you are, the more money you have. It doesn't equal controlling people. Money can certainly be spent in order to influence people, but being rich does not mean you control anyone.

opebo,
There are a couple of problems with your analysis.  First, the Nazi were not crusty.  They were not the von Romsteins and the barons and the grafs.  Sure, those old Prussian aristocrats jumped aboard after the federal elections of 1932, but the NSDAP was grassroots and humble in origin.  It wasn't top-down policy making originally, but quite the opposite.  Secondly, the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants were around long before the first Bavarian beer hall putsch.  A serious xenophobic, nativist Yankee WASP empresario could do better than call himself a Nazi.  I submit that this is just nouveau bourgeois white trash exploiting poor white trash, and not some conspiracy of elitist fascists such as one finds in the Trilateral Commision and the Princeton Alumni Club.  They would be better off with a French name than a German one. 

You're off-topic Tongue
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Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
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