Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 23, 2014, 10:21:11 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  2012 Elections (Moderators: Mr. Morden, Bacon King, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Ron Paul Sells Out
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Ron Paul Sells Out  (Read 1212 times)
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8140
United States


View Profile
« on: April 13, 2012, 08:43:25 pm »
Ignore

....or at least that's what some of his supporters may think when they read this.

Quote
Ron Paul to Obama and Romney: “Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.  Get over it.”

News is now leaking out about a private meeting between evangelical leaders and presidential candidate Ron Paul which took place last Wednesday night.  The leaders asked Dr. Paul about an Executive Order moving the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.  “The real issue here is not what America wants but what Israel wants.  We have no right to chose their capital,” Dr. Paul said, “If they say it is Jerusalem, then it is Jerusalem.”

The Barack Obama administration has consistently rejected this idea and Governor Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.

The meeting held last Wednesday night in Ft. Worth, Texas, had two representatives of evangelicals presenting Dr. Paul with a list of questions they had received from denominational leaders, pastors and television evangelists.  In the wake of Senator Rick Santorum’s departure from the presidential race, many evangelical leaders are turning to Ron Paul.

The question to Dr. Paul was posed by Rev. Brian Jacobs, one of the evangelical participants.  Jacobs, a former consultant to the Billy Graham Association and a pastor of the Ft. Worth Metroplex Church asked the question at the beginning of the meeting. According to Jacobs, Dr. Paul asked, “How would we feel if some other nation told us that we would have to make our capital in New York and they refused to build their embassy in Washington, D.C.  It is none of our business.”

Paul’s answer even surprised some of his own staff.

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/ron-paul-to-obama-and-romney-jerusalem-is-the-capital-of-israel/
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 09:06:02 pm by Joseph Gordon Levitt »Logged
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8140
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 08:54:56 pm »
Ignore

This seems to be travelling pretty quickly in libertarian circles....
Logged
LastVoter
seatown
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4466
Thailand


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 08:56:49 pm »
Ignore

Wah wah Rahn Pahl! But shouldn't this destroy his base.
Logged
argentarius
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 846
Ireland, Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 09:09:00 pm »
Ignore

Paul was never anti-Israel.
Logged
ag
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6227


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 09:13:12 pm »
Ignore

Paul was never anti-Israel.

Which only goes to show that Israel isn't a Jewish state Smiley)
Logged

Курица - не птица, Болгария - не заграница.
Miles
MilesC56
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14652
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: 4.35

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 09:16:49 pm »
Ignore

Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
Logged


ChairmanSanchez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15073
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 09:22:45 pm »
Ignore

Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
Why? I see nothing wrong with this. If Israel militarily controls it, then Israel as the right to make it the capital. If the Palestinians take it back, they have the right to make it their capital. 
Logged

America's like that hot chick everyone wants, and illegal immigrants are all the nerds that she should say "no" to.
America First
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 85
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.29, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 09:24:30 pm »
Ignore

All he's saying is that if he was President, the US would move their embassy to wherever Israel wants their capital to be.  He's not saying that he supports one capital over another.  This doesn't bother me, and I'm usually very critical of politicians for pandering to Israel.
Logged

I have no problem with a two party system.  I'm just waiting for the second party.

Proud isolationist!  I prefer the United States of America, not United People's Republic of the World.
Miles
MilesC56
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14652
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: 4.35

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 09:25:17 pm »
Ignore

Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
Why? I see nothing wrong with this. If Israel militarily controls it, then Israel as the right to make it the capital. If the Palestinians take it back, they have the right to make it their capital. 

Because I don't accept the premise that Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel.
Logged


The Mikado
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14419


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 09:29:44 pm »
Ignore

I hate to admit it, but doesn't he have a point?  Wouldn't this be like someone in 1800 refusing to make the embassy to the Ottoman Empire be Istanbul because Constantinople belongs to the Greeks?  I mean, I don't feel that Israel has a legitimate claim to East Jerusalem, but they claim it as their capital. 
Logged

Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
Bull Moose Base
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2622


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 09:41:07 pm »
Ignore

This feels like the flip side of people taking Obama's real original opposition to the Iraq War and projecting it into an assumption that he opposed all US military action then claiming they were defrauded.  People assume Ron Paul is kneejerk anti-Israel by taking his real opposition to other sacred cows of neocons and making unfounded assumptions.  Paul obviously is smart enough to realize he was telling this audience what they wanted to hear and was glad to, but it's not like he strayed from any non-interventionist positions he's taken previously or sold out.  I'm surprised his staff was surprised by his answer.
Logged
Carlos Danger
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8404
Liechtenstein


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 11:21:20 pm »
Ignore

I was sort of shocked at first, given the symbolic implications, but then again Tel Aviv is also stolen land so it's not like there's any difference.
Logged

R2D2
20RP12
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22100
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -7.55, S: -7.91

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2012, 11:25:49 pm »
Ignore

I'm not exactly sure why this has bad connotations. He's got a point.
Logged

Vacationing in New Jersey 08/23-08/30


Also, it's so R-Money to unabashedly ruin a thousand dollar suit with ice water and laugh about it.
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5046
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2012, 11:35:27 pm »
Ignore

Moreover, how is this surprising? Ron Paul's chief message has been "mind our own business." This is pretty much the epitome of minding our own business.
Logged

Odysseus
Scifiguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 880
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.19, S: -6.61

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2012, 11:40:48 pm »
Ignore

Uhm, yeah, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Fact.

Quote
“The real issue here is not what America wants but what Israel wants.  We have no right to chose their capital,” Dr. Paul said, “If they say it is Jerusalem, then it is Jerusalem.”

I don't know, but this seems rather reasonable.
Logged
Mehmentum
Icefire9
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1444
United States


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2012, 06:54:19 pm »
Ignore

Quote
Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.
Mitt Romney firmly stands for not having an opinion!
Logged

Reading the 3012 boards dulls one's sense of irony.

Seriously. How many times can we read about the Obamachine 3000 pulling ahead of the Reagantronix QLZ in the race for Mars Mutant Colony's 48 electoral votes? Sheesh!
politicus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3716
Denmark


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2012, 07:18:01 pm »
Ignore

Quote
Mitt Romney steadfastly refuses to make a commitment on the issue.
Mitt Romney firmly stands for not having an opinion!
Wink So true!

On topc: An embassy should of course be in the host countrys de facto capital.
Logged

Every time I see Denmark I just want to punch it in the face...
Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27198
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2012, 07:28:03 pm »
Ignore

West Jerusalem has been a part of Israel since the beginning. Why are folks here disputing that bit of territory?  Is it a dispute over the existence of the state itself?  If not, why would one dispute on just which piece of real estate a nation chooses to host its capital?
Logged
Jerseyrules
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2465
United States


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2012, 09:40:41 pm »
Ignore

Well, I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.

I don't see any significance in this article WHAT SO EVER!  Frankly, my dears, u don't give a damn.  And I'm going to vote for him in the primary no matter what.  Ron Paul is saying what he always does.  WE SHOULD LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT!
Logged

Drink Too Much:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147022.0

An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

Libertarian Internationalist Monarchist
Passing Through a Screen Door
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 72042
Sweden


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2012, 09:57:01 pm »
Ignore

Are there any countries that do have their embassies in Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv?
Logged

Victory over Inks dedicated in memory.


01/05/2004-01/10/2014
The Mikado
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14419


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2012, 11:26:35 pm »
Ignore

Are there any countries that do have their embassies in Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv?

According to Wiki:

Quote
Subsequent to UNSC resolution 478, 13 countries (Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, the Netherlands, Panama, Uruguay and Venezuela) which had maintained their embassies in Jerusalem, moved their embassies out of the city, primarily to Tel Aviv. Costa Rica and El Salvador moved theirs back to Jerusalem in 1984. Costa Rica moved its embassy back to Tel Aviv in 2006 followed by El Salvador a few weeks later.[60][61] No international embassy remains in Jerusalem, although Paraguay has its embassy in Mevasseret Zion, a suburb 10 km west of the city,[62] as did Bolivia until relations were severed in 2009.[62][63]
Various countries recognized Israel as a state in the 1940s and 1950s, but they did not recognize Israeli sovereignty over West Jerusalem. There is an international sui generis consular corps in Jerusalem. It is commonly referred to as the "Consular Corps of the Corpus Separatum". The states that have maintained consulates in Jerusalem say that it was part of Mandate Palestine, and in a de jure sense, has not since become part of any other sovereignty.[13] The Netherlands maintains an office in Jerusalem serving mainly Israeli citizens. Other foreign governments base Consulate General offices in Jerusalem, including Greece, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States.[64] Since the President of Israel resides in Jerusalem and confirms the foreign diplomats, the ambassadors have to travel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to submit letters of credentials upon being appointed.
[edit]
Logged

Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27968
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 10:59:19 am »
Ignore

West Jerusalem has been a part of Israel since the beginning. Why are folks here disputing that bit of territory?  Is it a dispute over the existence of the state itself?  If not, why would one dispute on just which piece of real estate a nation chooses to host its capital?

Technically, West Jerusalem has not been a part of the State of Israel since the beginning.  Under the UN partition plan, Jerusalem was not part of either the Arab or Jewish states.  Tel Aviv was included in the area allocated to the Jewish state.  However, West Jerusalem is not the only area not part of the 1947 borders that is within the 1949-1967 borders, yet it is the part of which generates the most angst.
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
TheGlobalizer
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3304
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -7.13

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 04:50:48 pm »
Ignore

As someone who has spent time in Israel, yes, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.  Asserting otherwise is fantasy-land, and isn't based on any sort of actual facts.

Whether it's right that it is the case is another matter, but arguing about it is really just another piece of this retardedly elaborate Kabuki dance going on between the Israeli government and Palestinian Authority.
Logged
JCL is dating a geologist
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4240
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 05:05:25 pm »
Ignore

This isn't selling out one bit. It's rather consistant with his views.
Logged

Congressional Races
Jackie Walorski (R/IN-2)
Marlin Stutzman (R/IN-3)
Todd Rokita (R/IN-4)
Chard Reid (Lib/IN-5)
Luke Messer (R/IN-6)
Tom Massie (R/KY-4)
David Brat (R/VA-7)
Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14669
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2012, 08:03:04 pm »
Ignore

And? Jerusalem is the capital of Israel
Logged

Moderate Liberal Populist Smiley [Personal 45%/Economic 42%] / Defense 'Hawk'

Registered in Georgia for Fantasy Politics
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines