If Hoover blamed Coolidge....
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  If Hoover blamed Coolidge....
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Author Topic: If Hoover blamed Coolidge....  (Read 3073 times)
Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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Junior Chimp
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« on: April 13, 2013, 03:48:07 PM »

If Hoover took the Obama route and blamed Coolidge for the Depression, would Hoover have a different reputation or a better chance at re-election?
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2013, 03:53:38 PM »

Not really, given that they were from the same party.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 03:54:43 PM »

what
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Paul Kemp
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 04:02:09 PM »

Your premise is flawed.
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Blue3
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 04:53:39 PM »

Well, Harding/Coolidge/Hoover always get lumped together in responsibility for the Great Depression in the history books.
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change08
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 06:54:36 PM »

"The Obama route."
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 08:41:18 PM »

Obama blamed Bush all the time.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 08:49:04 PM »
« Edited: April 13, 2013, 08:54:16 PM by Irish Racism, the Poster »


Ugh. . . . . . :

1920's:

29. Warren G. Harding (Republican-Ohio) 1921-1923
30. Calvin Coolidge (Republican-Massachusetts) 1923-1929
31. Herbert Hoover (Republican-California) 1929-1933


Vs.

2000's:

43. George W. Bush (Republican-Texas) 2001-2009
44. Barack Obama (Democratic-Illinois) 2009-Present

Yeah.. . . . . . . . why did Hoover hold back on criticizing his predecessors?

Don't get me started on the whole "Hoover doesn't deserve the blame" meme that seems to be popular.  Herbert Hoover deserved as much blame as possible for a man who governed during his time.  He did nothing to better the situation, did nothing to correct the flaws in place that allowed said Depression to happen, and in fact willingly did things against the advice of practically every goddamn economist in the world for the sake of partisan hackery that actually made the situation worse.
He might've been a good man, but he was a horrible president.

Obama, on the other hand, while not magically improving the economic follies of Bush, has tried to improve upon his faults.  Such that I can't say about Hoover.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 04:42:38 AM »

First of all, Obama route doesn't apply here. Obama was not President when the crisis started.

Second, average voter wouldn't care if Hoover blamed Coolidge or not, they'd still want him out. And such approach would make Hoover's reelection even less likely: he'd piss his own base by attacking a popular former Republican President.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 04:47:45 AM »

Don't get me started on the whole "Hoover doesn't deserve the blame" meme that seems to be popular.  Herbert Hoover deserved as much blame as possible for a man who governed during his time.  He did nothing to better the situation, did nothing to correct the flaws in place that allowed said Depression to happen, and in fact willingly did things against the advice of practically every goddamn economist in the world for the sake of partisan hackery that actually made the situation worse.
He might've been a good man, but he was a horrible president.

You're right.

While every major economic crisis is a process made up from various developments, some happening long before thing blow over, Hoover:
1. Did a piss poor job dealing with the depression (and he had over 3 years left after the crash)
2. He made things much worse by Smoot–Hawley

I have a spot in my heart for Hoover for his humanitarian work, that helped my country a lot, but every person with a brain must admit that as President he was a FAIL
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 05:15:25 AM »

That would require Hoover to have a completely different (and rather better) understanding/take on what was actually happening, in which case he couldn't have been Herbert Hoover.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 07:24:52 AM »

Hoover actually helped implement many of the programs that FDR expanded on with the New Deal. Hoover wasn't responsible for the Great Depression.  If anything, the people were responsible for riding the wave of economic growth to unsustainable levels.  You know what they say, be careful about riding the tiger, because you just might end up inside.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 08:07:04 AM »

FDR certainly tended to blame Hoover at times.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 10:34:05 AM »

First of all, Obama route doesn't apply here. Obama was not President when the crisis started.

But Hoover was president when his crisis started.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 11:26:48 AM »

First of all, Obama route doesn't apply here. Obama was not President when the crisis started.

But Hoover was president when his crisis started.

Um, yes. That's literally the point Kalwejt just made.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 12:24:11 PM »

But Hoover had only been president for a few months.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2013, 02:37:17 PM »


Half a year is hardly "a few months".

Anyway, Hoover blaming Coolidge makes about as much sense as Van Buren blaming Jackson for the 1837 Panic.

And again, Hoover was such a horrible president that its highly unlikely he would've come close to the conclusion necessary.

Good man, but like many I know he was dumber than a bag of bricks.  At least as president.
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memphis
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2013, 04:59:47 PM »

Hoover had also been Coolidge's Secretary of Commerce. Seriously. The level of fail in this thread is astounding.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2013, 06:18:41 AM »

Yeah, "Hoover is not responsible for the Depression" meme is really stupid.

Even if he had nothing to do with the government business before 1929 (which "argument" has been tossed out already), it still happened on his watch and he failed miserably to deal with the crisis.

Of course making Hoover a sole spacegoat for such a complex problem is ridiculous, but doesn't make him innocent either.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 06:23:29 AM »

Mecha pointed out Hoover was really a bad President. That is true. He was not only bad as a policymaker, he was also utterly horrible in dealing with the public opinion. Coolidge and FDR, though ideological opposites, knew how to sell.

Imagine Hoover saying: "hey, not my fault, it was Coolidge". Do you think the voters would buy it? Lolno. It would actually make Hoover look more like a desperate failure.

And again, blaming popular predecessor, while Coolidge certainly was not without a blame for the Roaring Twenties bubble, would enrage his own party, thus making reelection even less likely. 
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Mechaman
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 12:02:20 PM »

Obamanation, ponder this:

A customer orders a Pepperoni Pizza with extra jalapeño peppers, mushrooms, and some bacon bits.  Employee A makes the pizza shortly before leaving shift.  Employee B takes the pizza to the customer.  Thirty seconds later the customer takes the pizza back to Employee B, pointing out that Employee A put banana peppers on the pizza and forgot the bacon bits.  Employee B apologizes, and then goes to the back to fix the pizza.  Employee B comes back and gives the pizza back to the customer.  Customer looks at the pizza and groans, loudly pointing out that he specifically stated that he wanted jalapeño peppers on the pizza, not no peppers at all.  Further, they wanted bacon bits, not cold pre packaged whole bacon on top of the pizza.  Employee B apologizes profusely, noting that the loud music in the restaurant distorted what he heard, and that he would fix the pizza up for the customer.  Employee B takes the pizza to the back, trips over a cord, and the pizza hits the floor in plain view of the customer up front.  The customer, enraged at the incompetence, yells at the top of his lungs and face contorted in rage "I WANT A NEW PIZZA!"  Enter Employee C, who just got off the phone from a delivery customer who has apologized profusely for canceling at the last minute, who comes to the front and asks the customer if they would like the brand new Buffalo Chicken pizza with polish sausage and jalapenos, extra large, free of charge while he personally remakes their pizza as originally ordered.  The customer, who always wanted to try the Buffalo Chicken pizza but didn't because it was too pricey, is like "okay, I guess I can try it now.  Hey thanks for taking care of this mess!  I hope your manager fires this asshole." (points at Employee B)

Now, I'm sure that by now you put it together who these three employees are, so let me ask: Does the fact that Employee A screwed up the original order excuse Employee B from his screwing it up even further?  Especially considering that Employee B didn't understand what the real problem was with it?

Employee C is just on the side to please the FDR fans Grin.
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