Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born (user search)
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  Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born (search mode)
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Author Topic: Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born  (Read 5278 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,175
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« on: April 17, 2012, 07:45:34 PM »

France

1. My teddy bear
2. A bunch of stuff
(gap)
3. Sarkozy?
4. Mitt'rrand
5. Chirac

For God's sake, you're not serious ?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,175
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 08:03:44 AM »

France

1. My teddy bear
2. A bunch of stuff
(gap)
3. Sarkozy?
4. Mitt'rrand
5. Chirac

For God's sake, you're not serious ?

Why, yes I am.

Well, then, either you've not followed french politics attentively enough or you policy views are not exactly what I thought they were. I won't defend Mitterrand or Chirac here but they both come miles ahead of Sarkozy in every aspect.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,175
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 01:55:19 PM »

I obviously didn't mean to insult you. I think that, even though you're actually more French than I am, it's not the same to follow french politics from another country or to hear the political news every day. I don't follow italian politics as much as a resident italian would if he were as interested in politics as I am. That doesn't make me an ignorant in italian politics. I don't see what's insulting.

Maybe we actually disagree on issues, but by talking with you, you seemed to be the kind of guy who would hate Sarko. Let's not develop too much, but his disgustingly petty populism (even when it comes as far as veiled xenophobia) enough should make him worse in your eyes than Chirac and Mitterrand.

There are many things to hate about Mitterrand, but I think his overall impact in term of policies was good (1981-83 was terrible, of course). His 1988 victory saved us from undertaking the neoliberal sh*tstorm US, Britain, Germany and Canada suffered, and gave us 3 years of Rocard, who was an excellent PM.

As for Chirac, wut ? Of course, a do-nothing is way better than someone who does bad thing. It's logically evident.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,175
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 07:53:46 PM »

I'm pretty piss-poor at reading comments over the internet, but I understand you better now. I interpreted your comment in a more insulting or derogatory manner, in the typical style of "I LIVE HERE U DON'T U KAN'T SPEAK ABUT MY KUNTRY!111".

I wouldn't tell that to you of all people. Tongue


Quote
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We can agree to disagree, of course. Especially if you have tons of work (believe me, I have come to reconsider the notion of "being overwhelmed by work" in the past week). Tongue Still, I have to restate that Sarko's "reforms" have been far from what you'd consider to be the sound and necessary reforms any government should do. It's not like they have gone that far after all (what does Sarko's super duper ultra-necessary pensions reform do ? It fixes the problem for barely a decade. What will we do at this point, raise the retirement age again ?), they have just made the country more unfair. They obviously haven't fixed the budget, as a quick look at numbers do. Really, I don't see how the majority (I understand you'd agree on one or two) of Sarko's reform could be considered as a step in the right direction by anyone except a neoliberal.

As for Mitterrand, well, of course there are lots of things to blame. But I think an overwhelming majority of laws passed have been good on balance. And it's not like they've crippled the deficit more than the right has. Regarding economic performance, I think it's fairly easy to compare Mitterrand and Sarko : both had sh*tty economic performances which weren't entirely their fault (remember the 1980s crisis was a pretty tough one and hurt the entire West). Regarding corruption, the right was hardly more honest. I don't say this to justify, but it simply means it's a general characteristic of the 1980s-1990s and not something you can blame solely on Mitterrand. And precisely, Bérégovoy's campaign finance reform is one of the main reasons why corruption has significantly diminished in the latter years IMO.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,175
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 08:53:30 AM »

I quite like discussing about policies, and I think I have a couple convincing arguments left as to why Sarko's reforms are regressive, ideological and only making problems worse. But I have no problem agreeing to disagree, if you prefer.
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