Voter ID remains among the most popular policies in America

[krazen1211]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75300.html

The vast majority of Americans believe that voter ID laws are necesssary to stop fraud, according to a new survey released Wednesday.
Indeed, 70 percent of Americans say they support voter identification measures “to stop illegal voting,” reports Fox News. Only 26 percent said such laws are “unnecessary and discourage legal voting.”

A majority of Democrats (52 percent), independents (72 percent) and Republicans (87 percent) supported voter ID laws as necessary.

Further, 50 percent of Americans said they believe opponents of voter ID laws were “trying to steal elections by increasing illegal votes by non-citizens and other ineligible voters,” compared to 45 percent who disagreed.




Certainly the fringe extremists are not making headway in fooling the public on this issue. Their position is almost as unpopular as anything not called Congress.

[angus]

Oh, Jeezus H. Christ.  Not this again.  Of course it's a good idea.  If we're going to ask folks for a picture ID before they can cash a two dollar and ninety-seven cent check, then we should certainly ask for a picture ID before they can perform one of the most important functions of any citizen in a democratic system.  I'm not going to rant again, but I'll post a link to one of my many earlier diatribes, for the sake of completeness.  See, for example, this:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=143267.msg3079883#msg3079883

[Redalgo]

I'm indifferent on the issue but if these laws are going to be in place think the state ought to
provide free photo IDs to people who do not already have them and are below a certain, low
level of income. It'd be unfortunate if a part of the electorate were unduly barred from voting.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I'm indifferent on the issue but if these laws are going to be in place think the state ought to
provide free photo IDs to people who do not already have them and are below a certain, low
level of income. It'd be unfortunate if a part of the electorate were unduly barred from voting.

Yes, this, not the fact of the ID itself, is the main problem. It needs to be made absolutely certain it doesn't act as a poll tax. Ideally states would be required to issue any ID that they might require for voting on their own recognizance.

Voter fraud is of course nevertheless a manufactured issue.

[angus]

Redalgo, nothing is free.  Free violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics, and possibly a few other theories as well.  You cannot have a government unless citizens are willing (or forced) to underwrite it.  But I'd agree that if we're going to have identification, then it ought to be something issued, and paid for by the general revenue.  That shouldn't be part of this debate.  Collect whatever revenue is necessary, by the usual means, and use it to provide such identification cards.  No individual should be required to cough up some amount of cash, however small, for the privilege of voting, because it is a right and not a privilege.  That I think is something we should agree upon at the outset. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Redalgo, Nathan, and angus:

As has been pointed out before when this topic has been raised, to avoid running foul of the Voting Rights Act and the Poll Tax Amendment, voter ID bills include an option for a photo ID that costs $0.  The issue for opponents has always been the cost in time and money some people need to make to get the documentation that shows that they are eligible for the photo ID.  Once you have those documents, it is trivial to get the ID.

Now, if the proponents of photo ID were serious in their assertions that all they want to do is eliminate voting fraud and they have no intention of suppressing the vote of those segments of society that have the most difficulty in getting the necessary documentation, they'd include provisions in their proposed laws to help them get the documentation.  As far as I know, they never have done that tho.

[jimrtex]

I'm indifferent on the issue but if these laws are going to be in place think the state ought to
provide free photo IDs to people who do not already have them and are below a certain, low
level of income. It'd be unfortunate if a part of the electorate were unduly barred from voting.

Texas requires TXDOT to issue an election identification certificate to any qualified person free of charge.

A voter can also use a drivers license, personal identification certificate (same as driver's license without driving privilege), US military ID, US citizenship certificate, US passport, or CHL.

[Redalgo]

Redalgo, nothing is free.  Free violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics, and possibly a few other theories as well.  You cannot have a government unless citizens are willing (or forced) to underwrite it.

I agree, and assumed other posters would consider that as being implied in my post. I don't think citizens should have to buy their privilege to vote, and rather than taking on the leftist stance of concluding the state should allocate taxpayers' dollars to awarding every citizen a photo ID I compromised in advance for practicality's sake by settling upon a relatively middle-of-the-road, liberal position that those who can reasonably afford to purchase the IDs ought to on their own while the state provides targeted assistance to those who cannot.  

But I'd agree that if we're going to have identification, then it ought to be something issued, and paid for by the general revenue.  That shouldn't be part of this debate.  Collect whatever revenue is necessary, by the usual means, and use it to provide such identification cards.  No individual should be required to cough up some amount of cash, however small, for the privilege of voting, because it is a right and not a privilege.  That I think is something we should agree upon at the outset.

Ya, exactly. *nods*

All the posts here are interesting to read by the way - I just don't have much to post about now that I haven't got anything controversial to laud, comment on, or criticize. xP

[DrScholl]

And the fact remains that is all about tailor making elections for those who claim voter fraud is so rampant. The advocates of this are certainly not as concerned about someone showing identification in a suburban, Republican county, but next door in a heavily urban, Democratic county, it's going to be a big issue.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Wait is this a bad thing? Because here, Authoritarian = Bad and Librtarian = Good, and this is very authoritarian.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Popular never seems to matter when it's a liberal position. The most liberal 80% of Americans got screwed with the Citizens United ruling.

[Joe Republic]

Popular never seems to matter when it's a liberal position. The most liberal 80% of Americans got screwed with the Citizens United ruling.

Plus, how many Americans support the Buffett Rule?  Like, two thirds?

[opebo]

Yes, the majority of people are racist fools.  This is not news, krazen.

[krazen1211]

Yes, the majority of people are racist fools.  This is not news, krazen.

What? Voter ID has enormous support among nonwhites.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'll post a link to one of my many earlier diatribes, for the sake of completeness.  See, for example, this:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=143267.msg3079883#msg3079883

Awesome rant, which I agree with mostly......awesome.

[King]

Honestly, I have no problem with voter ID.  It's minor issue.  The left would be wise to let the right have this one and in an ideal world they would.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if Hannity and Co cried "national identification totalitarian government nazi blah blah" and a lot of conservatives changed their tune if Democrats were to switch their support on this issue.  In fact, this is why I am against a lot of issues I would otherwise support at the moment. 

I am a moderate, but the behavior of the far right in the past few years has pretty much forced me to move to the left.  The game they are playing, which include forum narci-troll Krazen, seems very unsportsmanlike and destructive to mass society.  It needs to be defeated before we can move forward as a nation.

[Joe Republic]

Honestly, I have no problem with voter ID.  It's minor issue.  The left would be wise to let the right have this one and in an ideal world they would.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if Hannity and Co cried "national identification totalitarian government nazi blah blah" and a lot of conservatives changed their tune if Democrats were to switch their support on this issue.  In fact, this is why I am against a lot of issues I would otherwise support at the moment.

I find it amusing that conservatives are happy to let their abject disdain for minorities and poor people overrule their disdain for 'big government' rules and regulations such as voter ID.

I am a moderate, but the behavior of the far right in the past few years has pretty much forced me to move to the left.  The game they are playing, which include forum narci-troll Krazen, seems very unsportsmanlike and destructive to mass society.  It needs to be defeated before we can move forward as a nation.

Yep.

[morgieb]

Support in theory, but they just abuse it to suppress black votes.

[opebo]

Yes, the majority of people are racist fools.  This is not news, krazen.

What? Voter ID has enormous support among nonwhites.

Well, those would certainly be fools.

[dead0man]

This topic is one of my favorites.  First you've got the fact that there is precious little voter fraud, a mark against Voter ID.  But then you've got the people who are against it using the dumbest of arguments as to why we shouldn't have it, a mark for Voter ID.  As a bonus, European left leaning types are for it (or at least don't see what the big deal is), while race baiting left leaning American types think it's the worst thing since Jim Crow.  So, while being about as pointless as a topic could be, it's actualy very entertaining.  The exact opposite of abortion.

[Napoleon]

Seeing TJ talk himself in circles on abortion is sort of entertaining.

[© tweed]

I am a moderate, but the behavior of the far right in the past few years has pretty much forced me to move to the left.  The game they are playing, which include forum narci-troll Krazen, seems very unsportsmanlike and destructive to mass society.  It needs to be defeated before we can move forward as a nation.

they are winning, and will eventually win: the West is going neo-fascist.

[k-onmmunist]

I am a moderate, but the behavior of the far right in the past few years has pretty much forced me to move to the left.  The game they are playing, which include forum narci-troll Krazen, seems very unsportsmanlike and destructive to mass society.  It needs to be defeated before we can move forward as a nation.

they are winning, and will eventually win: the West is going neo-fascist.

Nah. If fascism was going to win, it'd be doing so now.

[© tweed]

I am a moderate, but the behavior of the far right in the past few years has pretty much forced me to move to the left.  The game they are playing, which include forum narci-troll Krazen, seems very unsportsmanlike and destructive to mass society.  It needs to be defeated before we can move forward as a nation.

they are winning, and will eventually win: the West is going neo-fascist.

Nah. If fascism was going to win, it'd be doing so now.

two readings I would refer to you.

Zizek on the Merkel shift in rhetoric to 'multiculturalism has failed':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/25/european-union-slovenia


Streeck on why the shift to austerity as a response to public debt (which was in turn a 'shift' from high inflation and then to private debt) is a simply another phase of the crisis of the neoliberal state, which cannot last in its current form:

http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2914