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| | |-+  Rank the following ideologies in order of awfulness.
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Author Topic: Rank the following ideologies in order of awfulness.  (Read 1858 times)
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2012, 07:20:38 am »
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I know, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for dead0man to claim Pol Pot represents communism given that what he did completely contradicts Marxist theory.
Oh, it seemed to me you were considering it at least somewhat reasonable but not done.
(As to my own views on Marxist theory, see signature.)
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« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2012, 08:39:06 am »
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All I know is that if you call Pol Pot a communist, the thought police usual suspects will come along and yell at you.  Anyway....


Just like you would yell at me if I called Hitler a capitalist.
Center-right. To the right of the "System" parties, to the left of the main right wing opposition the DNVP. Kiss (No seriously. Turn off your memories of what happened after '33, much of which would have also happened under a purely hypothetical genuinely popular DNVP government anyways. Hitler had greater crossover appeal than the DNVP because his program is basically the same minus those bits that both were extreme right and didn't sell. And not surprisingly, his election base in 32/3 was virtually identical to Hindenburg's in 25.  It's a statistical fact. It's a really unusually high correlation, .89 IIRC.)

I know, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for dead0man to claim Pol Pot represents communism given that what he did completely contradicts Marxist theory.
Did Hitler consider/call himself a capitalist?  Did his enemies call him a capitalist?  I'm pretty sure he consider himself an anti-capitalist.  Did Pol Pot consider himself an anti-communist?

Now, I'm not suggesting Pol Pot was a 100%, by the book, communist...but is anybody a 100%, by the book, anything?  I'm not even suggesting Pol Pot was a "regular" communist (whatever the fark that would be), he was a murderous jackass first and foremost and I totally understand somebody with communist sympathies would want to distance himself as far from Pol Pot as one could get....and really, there is NOTHING I or anyone else could say that would change your mind...which leads me to stop right now...enjoy your handwaving sir!
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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2012, 10:43:31 am »
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All I know is that if you call Pol Pot a communist, the thought police usual suspects will come along and yell at you.  Anyway....


Just like you would yell at me if I called Hitler a capitalist.
Center-right. To the right of the "System" parties, to the left of the main right wing opposition the DNVP. Kiss (No seriously. Turn off your memories of what happened after '33, much of which would have also happened under a purely hypothetical genuinely popular DNVP government anyways. Hitler had greater crossover appeal than the DNVP because his program is basically the same minus those bits that both were extreme right and didn't sell. And not surprisingly, his election base in 32/3 was virtually identical to Hindenburg's in 25.  It's a statistical fact. It's a really unusually high correlation, .89 IIRC.)

I know, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for dead0man to claim Pol Pot represents communism given that what he did completely contradicts Marxist theory.
I don't think anyone said Pol Pot was a Marxist.
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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2012, 10:46:54 am »
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Pol Pot was certainly a Communist by definition (he wanted to have everyone live in communes), and certainly followed Marxist doctrine as far as it could be followed in a preindustrial society.

FWIW, I'd find it dubious that the DNVP would've had a similar government to the Nazis - they were somewhere between Maurice Duplessis and Francisco Franco, not hypergenocidal.
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 pm »
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Personally I would rank them:
Agrarian primitivsm
Nazism
Theocracy
Stalinist communism
Feudalist aristocratism
Slavocracy (depends on how well they are treated)
Anarchism
Liberal democratic capitalism
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 10:58:17 pm »
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Anarchism
Agrarian Primitivism
National Socialism/Stalinist Communism (tie)
Slavocracy
Feudalist Aristocratism
Theocracy
Liberal Democratic Capitalism
*Social Democratic Capitalism*



I think you missed Nazism.

National Socialism is Nazism.
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2012, 08:11:11 am »
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Agrarian primitivsm
Nazism
Anarchism (taken as the Hobbesian "war of anybody against all")
Theocracy
Slavocracy
Stalinist communism
Feudalist aristocratism
Liberal democratic capitalism
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2012, 12:32:05 pm »
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Quote
Did his enemies call him a capitalist?
duh effing duh
Quote
I'm pretty sure he consider himself an anti-capitalist.
lolno
Quote
Did Pol Pot consider himself an anti-communist?

lolno
Quote
Did Hitler consider/call himself a capitalist?
Ah, that's a slightly more interesting question. There is a strain of German right-wing protest rhetoric that the Nazis also heavily used but that predates them that can read "anticapitalistic" to the modern reader with its attacks on big businesses... but is all about saving oldtimey self-employed businessmen from ruin, not about dependent workers at all. As well as deeply suffused with antisemitism ("banks" and esp. "huge stores" being understood to be Jews.)
Is the "trustbusting" rhetoric of America's Progressive Era (which has some similarities, in tone as well as an essentially Conservative impetus) non-capitalist? The answer is no, of course - it's about reforming certain excesses within a Capitalist system, not about ending it. (Which, btw, is an a bit ridiculous notion anyways, and can lead you to Pol Pot pretty quickly.)
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2012, 12:49:43 pm »
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You know my opinion of Franco... We ought to keep these Red Spaniards on the back burner... They're lost to democracy, and to that reactionary crew round Franco too... I believe you to the letter, Speer, that they were impressive people. I must say, in general, that during the civil war the idealism was not on Franco's side; it was to be found among the Reds ... one of these days we'll be able to make use of them... The whole thing will start all over again. But with us on the opposite side.

-Adolf Hitler to Albert Speer, January 1943
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2012, 06:30:08 pm »
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Least palatable.

1) Anarchism

2) Agrarian primitivism

- Big gap.
 
3) Stalinist communism

4) Theocracy

5) Nazism

6) Slavocracy

- Another big gap.

7) Feudalist aristocratism

8] Liberal democratic capitalism

Most palatable.




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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2012, 06:35:13 pm »
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1) Anarchism

5) Nazism

Yeah...no.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2012, 07:17:02 pm »
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Don't get me wrong lol, Nazism is horrific, all the choices except for Liberal Democracy are horrible. It's just under Anarchism, everyone, in my opinion, irrespective of race, gender or ethnicity suffers. 
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2012, 07:22:36 pm »
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Only those who refuse to prosper suffer under Anarchy.
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tweed
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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2012, 07:39:40 pm »
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I tried to this this but it is impossible to abstract from moments and subject; better when?  and for whom?  for an 'average' person?  then we would need a working theory of average.
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I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
R2D2
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« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2012, 07:41:30 pm »
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I tried to this this but it is impossible to abstract from moments and subject; better when?  and for whom?  for an 'average' person?  then we would need a working theory of average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar
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tweed
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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2012, 07:52:24 pm »
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chill out bro.  stop chasing the Golden Sunsets; let them come to you, true to form they will, relativity demands it.
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I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
R2D2
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« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2012, 07:55:25 pm »
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chill out bro.  stop chasing the Golden Sunsets; let them come to you, true to form they will, relativity demands it.

I was kidding Tongue

But that's deep.
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