Countries with no suburbs

[opebo]

BRTD, the urbanized area in which I live probably has around 200,000 people - just guessing - but dozens and dozens of strip clubs.  Actually here they are called 'go-go' bars, and a nice feature in contrast to the US version is that you can take the dancers home with you!

[Huckleberry Finn]

I think your best bet would be Europe, where 'suburban' is typically a very downmarket address.  All the richer people prefer to live in central cities, and suburbs are mostly where the working class or poor immigrants dwell.

In Finland we have rich, middle-class and poor suburbans, it depends are they single-family or apartment house areas. If you want to see really awful architecture come to visit a Finnish apartment house "suburban". Many rich people live in city centres, which are mostly very comfortable place to live. In Helsinki richest neighbourhoods lie just outside of city centre.

[Colin]

I should've said besides city states.

Oh yeah, I did some math:

My city has only 1 strip club, but we have 33,158 people. However if you include North Mankato which usually is, we have 45,211 people. So we have a person:strip club ration of 1:45211

population of Twin Cities: 659672
number of strip clubs: 14
person:strip club ratio: 1:47119

population of suburban Twin Cities: 2314938
number of strip clubs: 3
person:strip club ratio: 1:771646

the ratio of strip clubs in my area and the Twin Cities are about equal, but the suburbs have one 16x as much. Now what does that tell you about the suburbs?

Well I have a suggestion for you BRTD. Go to Akueyri, Iceland, the second largest city in Iceland. It has a strip club for every 15 people if I remeber correctly.

[muon2]

Strip club ratios are not a very good measure of suburban vs. non-suburban land use. They are a rather unique activity from a government level since they can be regulated yet the forms of regulation are strictly determined by the First Amendment. There are a number of SCOTUS decisions, as well as lower court rulings, that can bear on the location of any "adult entertainment" uses.

Entities with zoning power are required to designate a percentage of their land as available for adult uses. Failure to provide enough land invalidates the zoning. Requirements that restrict the areas that show no nexus to families and children also may invalidate the zoning rules.

In general there are two accetable zoning strategies, and ciies and counties will adopt one or the other. One strategy is to create a single area (e.g. a "strip", "combat zone", or "red-light district") and require all adult uses to go in that area. The other technique is to identify a zoning classification and specify minimum distances away from incompatible uses such as schools, churches, parks, and residences, as well as a separation from other adult uses.

The concentration approach only works well in large cities where there is sufficient density in the center(s) and distance to remote residential areas. The dispersal approach is preferred in smaller communities and counties where the density is lacking, but land is available to make the technique work.

[Bono]

Oh well. Pretty much everyone I know down here agrees with me though that the Twin Cities are hoping places and the suburbs are boring as hel (except for the Mall of America). I actually have lots of friends who grew up in the suburbs and they all hated it.

You allwyas have a lot of friends who support your beliefs. First it was private schools, now this. Unless you are a magnet of other looney leftists, and a repeler of anyone to the right of Pelosi, I seriously doubt your assertions.

I go to a very liberal university in a pretty damn liberal city, and most of my friends would classify as "loony leftists" to you although I'm significantly to the left of most of them. I don't associate with anyone who likes Bush though, I know that.

Have you ever stoped to think that may not be the best sample?

[muon2]

Oh well. Pretty much everyone I know down here agrees with me though that the Twin Cities are hoping places and the suburbs are boring as hel (except for the Mall of America). I actually have lots of friends who grew up in the suburbs and they all hated it.

I grew up in the Twin Cities suburbs from 6th-12th grade during the early 70's. I didn't hate it, I had plenty to do, I lived there during my college summers in the late 70's and enjoyed that as well. So now you you know of someone who didn't hate it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh well. Pretty much everyone I know down here agrees with me though that the Twin Cities are hoping places and the suburbs are boring as hel (except for the Mall of America). I actually have lots of friends who grew up in the suburbs and they all hated it.

You allwyas have a lot of friends who support your beliefs. First it was private schools, now this. Unless you are a magnet of other looney leftists, and a repeler of anyone to the right of Pelosi, I seriously doubt your assertions.

I go to a very liberal university in a pretty damn liberal city, and most of my friends would classify as "loony leftists" to you although I'm significantly to the left of most of them. I don't associate with anyone who likes Bush though, I know that.

Have you ever stoped to think that may not be the best sample?

never said it was.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh well. Pretty much everyone I know down here agrees with me though that the Twin Cities are hoping places and the suburbs are boring as hel (except for the Mall of America). I actually have lots of friends who grew up in the suburbs and they all hated it.

I grew up in the Twin Cities suburbs from 6th-12th grade during the early 70's. I didn't hate it, I had plenty to do, I lived there during my college summers in the late 70's and enjoyed that as well. So now you you know of someone who didn't hate it.

yeah but unlike my friends you're a Republican

But really, Twin Cities suburbia changed A LOT between the 70s and 90s

[muon2]

Oh well. Pretty much everyone I know down here agrees with me though that the Twin Cities are hoping places and the suburbs are boring as hel (except for the Mall of America). I actually have lots of friends who grew up in the suburbs and they all hated it.

I grew up in the Twin Cities suburbs from 6th-12th grade during the early 70's. I didn't hate it, I had plenty to do, I lived there during my college summers in the late 70's and enjoyed that as well. So now you you know of someone who didn't hate it.

yeah but unlike my friends you're a Republican

But really, Twin Cities suburbia changed A LOT between the 70s and 90s

My mother and one of my best friends still live there so I do visit often. It's true that the individual suburbs are quite different than they were 20 years ago, but I disagree that the suburbs are overall different. When I grew up Roseville was a new suburb and Bloomington wasn't that old either. The style of young families in tract suburban housing existed in all the inner suburbs 30 years ago. The outer city neighborhoods represented the previous generation of housing.

Now as I drive around I see that the inner suburbs have had 20-30 years to mature and differentiate. But their lifestyle lives on in the newer suburbs two or three towns further out. In November I drove through southern Anoka County and parts of Blaine reminded me of Roseville 30 years ago.

What I think you most dislike about the suburbs, is not the fact that they are not in the city, but that they are new areas. As new areas they will rarely have developed the lifestyle amenities you are looking for. It takes years before business will make the decision to move into a new community, and it's hard to predict which they will coose in advance. Independent communities, like Mankato, will have a mix of old and new areas and generally can't be compared as a whole to individual suburban communities.

Metro areas have a wide range of lifestyle options. That range gives them a diverse texture when seen as a metro region. Focussing on one particular suburb is like picking a single neighborhood in any city. It will appeal to a more narrow range than the metro are as a whole.