Countries with no suburbs

[12th Doctor]

It boggles my mind why anyone would want to live in such awful places. It's like moving to Fallujah.

According to an online directory I found, there's a total of 3 strip clubs in the entire suburban Twin Cities area, technically 4 but one is all male. And there's a total of 14 in the Twin Cities. What the hell do people do out in that wasteland that is the suburban Twin Cities? I wonder this every time I drive through it and see lots of identical looking houses.

One of the things that I pride myself for, is having developed an understanding that it is okay that not all people share my values and just accepting the fact.  In fact, I have even come to the point of maturity that I can acctually understand where they are coming from and try to relate to it.

Obviously, you have not yet reached this point of development.  Many never do.

[12th Doctor]

He is a better question, if I were a father, why would I want my family to be around all the crime and depravity if they don't have to be?

[12th Doctor]

You don't. My aunt has lived in Minneapolis for over 10 years, she lives in a fairly safe neighborhood that's probably safter than the one I live in, and has never been the victim of any sort of crime.

I remember growing up in my sterile boring yet safe city when my mom would talk about how awful it was her sister actually had to lock her doors every night. oh the humanity!

Trust me, most cities are not like that.  Minneapolis must be safer and more wealthy than Erie, cauae where I live is nothing like what you described.

[12th Doctor]

I looked up the stats on Minneapolis and Erie:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Erie-Pennsylvania.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Minneapolis-Minnesota.html

first of all, Erie is not a major city. There's more people in Sioux Falls.

Anyway, the stats are interesting. Yes, Minneapolis is wealthier, median income is about $38k compared to $28k for Erie. However, crime is not. Minneapolis has a crime index of 597.1, with 330.6 being the national average. Erie however has a 269.1, which is LOWER than the national average. There aren't any crime stats for my city, but I'd guess that they're pretty close to Erie's.

Erie is much smaller than Minneapolis.  Only about 1/5 as large.  When crime happens here, we tend to notice and it happens often.  I know 15 college girls who mugged and raped or almost raped my first year up here, by the locals.  Homeless people also tend to congregate here.  Some of them are nice and I have helped them out when I could.  Some are not so nice.  The police are very busy here.  Also, the areas surrounding Erie have basically molded into the cities, they are barely suburbs anymore, and there is no telling where the city stops and they begin, without a map, so Erie acctually has a population about the size of Pittsburgh (proper).  Still far smaller than the Minneapolis/St.Paul area, but large enough to count.

[12th Doctor]

not exactly, but the corrrelation of strip clubs to how fun a city is is usually pretty accurate.

anyway, I think we're basically comparing apples to oranges above, since not only is Minneapolis almost 4x the size of Erie, but it sounds as if soulty lives in one of the most dangerous parts of Erie, while my aunt lives in one of the safest parts of Minneapolis. However this proves my point, you can live in a major city and not have to worry about a drive by gang shooting every night. There's no reason to flee to the cultural wasteland of suburbia.

Is there a non-dangerous part of Erie?  If there is, I have yet to find it.  It is estimated that 50% (!) of all crimes in this city go unreported or are just ignored by the police, because there are too few police in the city and county to respond to all of the problems.

[12th Doctor]

Erie is not as safe as the city like to claim.  The way they run the statistics happen to favor Erie's image quite a bit.

[12th Doctor]

What's the street scene like in Minneapolis and Erie?

Erie has a lot of clubs.  There is a bar or a church on ever single corner of the town.  The downtown is making a big ome back, but there is still a lot of work to be done.  Most of that comeback is because of Ridge and all the money he gave to the area, which was in serious decline through the 70's, 80's and 90's.  The unemployment rate is about 8.5%  and the mayor has been indicted for major federal offenses and ethics violations.

[12th Doctor]

well the crime rate is lower than the national average. it's also lower than the rate in Des Moines, Iowa, and anyone who gets scared in Des Moines is one wussy person.

As I explained, and as one of the police officers here told me, there is a lot more crime than the statistics show.  Most of it gets buried.

[12th Doctor]

Also, the mob is huge here.  They operate out of Youngstown and have some shops here.  A lot of people go missing every year, but are not confirmed "murdered".  The lake and bay help that out quite a bit.

[12th Doctor]

Also, the mob is huge here.  They operate out of Youngstown and have some shops here.  A lot of people go missing every year, but are not confirmed "murdered".  The lake and bay help that out quite a bit.

Wow, that is interesting!  Like the real Italian mafia?

Anyway by 'street scene' I meant more like who do you see standing on streetcorners, that sort of thing.

There are about 50 or so "message parlors" around town, if that is what you mean.

Yeah, a real mob.  There are Greek, Italian and Muslim mobs opperating in the city.  Probably Russians too.

The Irish community here is very old, dating back to the founding of the city, so I don;t think there is much of an Irish mob, if any at all.

[12th Doctor]

Erie is a perfect city for the mob to do business in, because we are on the water and close to Canada, but not high profile, like Cleveland or Detriot.

[12th Doctor]

There are about 50 or so "message parlors" around town, if that is what you mean.

Wow, that is cool!  I think I might like your town a lot.  Any idea on prices?  Quality?

Sorry.  Never been.

[12th Doctor]

Murder rates are a better indicator of the relative safety of various areas in my opinion. Using FBI data for 2003 the murder rates (murders/100,000 population)  are;
Erie        3
Minneapolis  12
Detroit          40

Source http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/xl/03tbl08.xls

By that standard Minneapolis doesn't look too bad and Erie is downright peaceful. Detroit on the other hand is not such a safe place.

*Bangs head against desk*

Did I not just explain to you that that statistic is not the case?

[12th Doctor]

What's the street scene like in Minneapolis and Erie?

Erie has a lot of clubs.  There is a bar or a church on ever single corner of the town.  The downtown is making a big ome back, but there is still a lot of work to be done.  Most of that comeback is because of Ridge and all the money he gave to the area, which was in serious decline through the 70's, 80's and 90's.  The unemployment rate is about 8.5%  and the mayor has been indicted for major federal offenses and ethics violations.

Sounds like Altoona.  Johnstown looks like a post Soviet city.

Erie is very corrupt, as Al said, but it is not as bad as, say, Buffalo appearance or people wise.

Going to Buffalo is seriously like going to London during the blitz.

Acctually, post Soviet is a better description, but I wanted to be original sounding.