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Author Topic: Dutch Government on the verge of falling.  (Read 3543 times)
Insula Dei
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« on: April 21, 2012, 10:36:33 am »
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First on-line source in English I could find is from 3 weeks ago:

http://fride.org/blog/dutch-government-likely-to-fall-over-additional-cuts/

Today Wilders did walk away from the negotiating table, making a collapse of the government and early elections (possibly in September) very likely. I will enjoy the CDA getting what it so obviously deserves, but beyond that I think there are very few certainties if there were to be an election.

I suppose the VVD might well stay the largest party, but at the same time headed for the opposition as there seems a big desire to break with this government on the left and in the center. Together PvdA, SP, GL, and D66 should come close to a majority, I guess, as the CDA will literally bleed votes to the left. So, does any of our Dutch members know whether it's realistic for all those parties (and possibly the CU, PvdD or even the CDA) to work together?

Poll:

http://www.ipsos-nederland.nl/content.asp?targetid=621
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Antonio V
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 10:41:11 am »
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Oh please please yes.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 10:45:23 am »
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Don't like Mark Rutte's ideals (at all), but I like his style, but to see France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Slovakia head left all within a year of eachother is just brilliant. Finally some wins for the left.
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 10:46:36 am »
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Wouldn't SP as the largest left-wing party create a potential sh**tstorm for forming a purely left-wing coalition?
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 10:53:03 am »
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There's no need to stres just how awful this government was, I suppose. But it's still wildly comical that Wilders is blaming a 'Brussels imposed' limit of 3% on deficits for his decision to back away from the government: a 3% limit that the Dutch government itself helped force on the rest of the EU. I wonder why Wilders didn't think that problematic at the time.

About the CDA: it's really one of the most despicably hypocrite bunch of careerists in European politics. Recently a party commision decided that the CDA needed to position itself more to the centre of the political scene. On Dutch television one of the members of an important party organ was interviewed and asked whether he didn't think that claiming to be a 'mature, centrist' party wasn't incompatible with being part of one of the most right-wing governments in history. His answer was something like: 'Well, obviously it's going to be a hard sell'. That's the mentality of those people. The champion of them all just has to be Immigration Minister Gerd Leers though. Oh, I do hope the party gets absolutely destroyed.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 04:56:22 pm by Tussen Droom en Daad »Logged

Insula Dei
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 10:56:05 am »
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Wouldn't SP as the largest left-wing party create a potential sh**tstorm for forming a purely left-wing coalition?

I understand the SP is falling back as many of its voters return to the PvdA, which has recently elected a new leader (Diederik Samsom). Barring a disasterous campaign or Samsom turning out to have been a horrible pick, the PvdA should be the largest party of the left. The SP also looks like it could still lose some voters back to the PVV if Wilders manages to make those people forget why they abandoned him by running an especially populist campaign.

Disclaimer: all of this is just speculation by a casual bystander.
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 10:58:38 am »
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Ho hum. Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 11:05:01 am »
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Cheesy

Oh, I do hope the party gets absolutely destroyed.

Which would be quite the remarkable thing, from a historical perspective.
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 11:37:55 am »
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Excellent.
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 12:08:32 pm »
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Can any Dutch give me a summary of how disastrous this government has been? I know Wilders is a bigot, but I mean in terms of policy.
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 12:20:52 pm »
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Wouldn't SP as the largest left-wing party create a potential sh**tstorm for forming a purely left-wing coalition?

Yes, please.
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 04:16:33 pm »
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Well, doesn't CDA took a beating last time?
They could go even lower?
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 04:48:32 pm »
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Well, doesn't CDA took a beating last time?
They could go even lower?
Oh,  absolutely.  The party is on 12 seats in the polls. They don't even have a leader at the moment.

Early elections are expected in September.
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 04:53:07 pm »
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Can any Dutch give me a summary of how disastrous this government has been? I know Wilders is a bigot, but I mean in terms of policy.

Well, in 2010 we came out of the hard economic times as one of the best in Europe, now we are back in a recession and near the bottom of Europe. That says it all.

This government has fallen and new elections will be held probably in September. It's not official yet (after all, the PVV was never really part of the government to begin with), but the government has lost it's majority support in parliament.

As for the parties.

The CDA doesn't even have a leader. Since Balkenende left in June of 2010 Verhagen (now the deputy prime minister) has been the acting leader, but he has said allready he is not available for the job (he is among the most distrusted politicians in the country). And there is no real frontrunner for the job right now.

The PvdA just elected a new leader only weeks ago. But Samson is only partyleader for the moment. New elections will be held to decide who will lead them throw the elections. Although, with the recovery in the polls the last week, Samson will probably win those party elections easily.

As for Geert Wilders, he is slipping away. His party is in turmoil and more and more elected official around the country are walking away from him.
There are some rumours that he might be leaving The Netherlands for a job in the US.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 04:54:42 pm by Earthling »Logged

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 05:02:44 pm »
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Can any Dutch give me a summary of how disastrous this government has been? I know Wilders is a bigot, but I mean in terms of policy.

Well, in 2010 we came out of the hard economic times as one of the best in Europe, now we are back in a recession and near the bottom of Europe. That says it all.

This government has fallen and new elections will be held probably in September. It's not official yet (after all, the PVV was never really part of the government to begin with), but the government has lost it's majority support in parliament.

As for the parties.

The CDA doesn't even have a leader. Since Balkenende left in June of 2010 Verhagen (now the deputy prime minister) has been the acting leader, but he has said allready he is not available for the job (he is among the most distrusted politicians in the country). And there is no real frontrunner for the job right now.

The PvdA just elected a new leader only weeks ago. But Samson is only partyleader for the moment. New elections will be held to decide who will lead them throw the elections. Although, with the recovery in the polls the last week, Samson will probably win those party elections easily.

As for Geert Wilders, he is slipping away. His party is in turmoil and more and more elected official around the country are walking away from him.
There are some rumours that he might be leaving The Netherlands for a job in the US.
So Wilders wasn't actually able to get any fascist stuff through Dutch Parliament?
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Earthling
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2012, 05:08:47 pm »
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He was bad, as was this government. Sending kids back to Africa where they have nobody who can take care of them is bad enough. Sending gays to Iran where they will be murdered for being gay. Those kind of things happened, sadly enough.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2012, 05:09:21 pm »
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Dutch immigration policies are now so strict that any further change in the direction Wilders would like is impossible without breaking International Treaties or opening up the Netherlands to persecution in Strassbourg. Several Asylum Seekers have burnt themselves as suicide-protest. The Netherlands deports underage girls who have spent most of their life there to Afghanistan,...

Rutte basically sold out immigrants in the Netherlands to Wilders so he could more effectively wield the Austerity Axe in other terrains (like, oh, foreign aid).  It was a truly despicable government, vile to the bone.
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Earthling
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2012, 05:23:31 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2012, 05:37:34 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.

Given that Wilders (as well as the seemingly-forgotten Rita Verdonk) were VVD to begin with, it hardly looks like that much of a sell-out.
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2012, 05:42:30 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.

Given that Wilders (as well as the seemingly-forgotten Rita Verdonk) were VVD to begin with, it hardly looks like that much of a sell-out.

What was that? Seriously? (The video, I think).
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2012, 05:45:12 pm »
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The Wilders of 2010 was very different from the man who left the VVD in 2004. He has become more radical by the year. Compared to him Fortuijn is almost left wing and Verdonk seems like a moderate.

And Verdonk was thrown out of the VVD when they were in opposition.

So yes, Rutte sold his party out to the PVV and the SGP. And he did it to stay in power.
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2012, 05:46:49 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.

Given that Wilders (as well as the seemingly-forgotten Rita Verdonk) were VVD to begin with, it hardly looks like that much of a sell-out.

What was that? Seriously? (The video, I think).

The worst campaign spot you will ever find.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2012, 05:47:00 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.

Given that Wilders (as well as the seemingly-forgotten Rita Verdonk) were VVD to begin with, it hardly looks like that much of a sell-out.

Haha Rita Verdonk and that infamous little video!

She had the bad luck of pulling out at the wrong moment and in the wrong direction. Never understood why she didn't wind up in the PVV. Might have to do with Wilders being too close to Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm sure one of our Dutchmen knows. Trots Op Nederland still exists, google learns me, and now is one of those irrelevant parties with a disproportionally long wikipedia article.

Edit: Dutch political videos generally are a bit weird and ill-considered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVx7-z1oC8Y
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 05:49:08 pm by Tussen Droom en Daad »Logged

Earthling
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2012, 05:53:31 pm »
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Rutte has sold the VVD out to the PVV and the radical Christians of the SGP. That is really sad for a party that claims to be liberal.

Given that Wilders (as well as the seemingly-forgotten Rita Verdonk) were VVD to begin with, it hardly looks like that much of a sell-out.

Haha Rita Verdonk and that infamous little video!

She had the bad luck of pulling out at the wrong moment and in the wrong direction. Never understood why she didn't wind up in the PVV. Might have to do with Wilders being too close to Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm sure one of our Dutchmen knows. Trots Op Nederland still exists, google learns me, and now is one of those irrelevant parties with a disproportionally long wikipedia article.

Edit: Dutch political videos generally are a bit weird and ill-considered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVx7-z1oC8Y

Rita Verdonk is more right wing on economic issues. Geert Wilders has pretty left wing economic views (I suspect it's more out of electoral believe than real believe). And Verdonk was and is just one big joke.
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2012, 07:35:44 pm »
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These videos are absolute comedy gold! Cheesy
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