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| | |-+  France 2012: Official Results Thread
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Author Topic: France 2012: Official Results Thread  (Read 28856 times)
Abdul the Damned
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« Reply #175 on: April 22, 2012, 04:08:37 pm »
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Interestingly both Chirac and Hollande were from outside of Corrèze, but made their political bases there. Chirac is from Paris, Hollande from Rouen.

Ah. I remember Chirac was also Mayor of Paris for some time. I'm always amazed by how much of what would here be seen as blatant carpetbagging goes on in Europe.

Yep, he was mayor of Paris and deputy from Corrèze at the same time, as I recall.

It's funny one can be Mayor, Deputy, Minister or even the Prime Minister at the same time. For example, Chaban-Delmas continued to be a Mayor of Bordeaux (he was one for almost 50 years!) while President of the National Assembly and then Prime Minister. Now Alain Juppe is serving simultaneously as Mayor of Bordeaux and Foreign Minister.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 04:11:39 pm by IDS Legislator Kalwejt »Logged

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« Reply #176 on: April 22, 2012, 04:08:55 pm »
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Imagine how well Melenchon would be doing right now against a disappointing PS incumbent in the same vein as Zapatero or Socrates who implemented a series of neo-liberal reforms in the midst of a crippling recession...

Hollande's presidency is going to be a disaster to say the least.

I suppose he's sort of a French John Kerry, even if this is obvious most people voting for him (as I certainly would in the second round) will be just concerned with getting Sarkozy out.
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« Reply #177 on: April 22, 2012, 04:09:29 pm »
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Interestingly both Chirac and Hollande were from outside of Corrèze, but made their political bases there. Chirac is from Paris, Hollande from Rouen.

Ah. I remember Chirac was also Mayor of Paris for some time. I'm always amazed by how much of what would here be seen as blatant carpetbagging goes on in Europe.

Yep, he was mayor of Paris and deputy from Corrèze at the same time, as I recall.

What.
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« Reply #178 on: April 22, 2012, 04:09:37 pm »
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Interestingly both Chirac and Hollande were from outside of Corrèze, but made their political bases there. Chirac is from Paris, Hollande from Rouen.

Ah. I remember Chirac was also Mayor of Paris for some time. I'm always amazed by how much of what would here be seen as blatant carpetbagging goes on in Europe.

Yep, he was mayor of Paris and deputy from Corrèze at the same time, as I recall.

That's legal in France? I know European countries tend to be more tolerant of carpetbagging but never thought to that level.
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« Reply #179 on: April 22, 2012, 04:10:43 pm »
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Imagine how well Melenchon would be doing right now against a disappointing PS incumbent in the same vein as Zapatero or Socrates who implemented a series of neo-liberal reforms in the midst of a crippling recession...

Hollande's presidency is going to be a disaster to say the least.

Yeah that's what I thought for a while, and why I once posted that no matter who wins doesn't lose (yeah, nobody 'wins' this election, MLP at best, polls kept showing that about 60% of Hollande vote was anti-Sarkozy, only about 30% was by adhesion to Hollande) 'Mélenchon-Montebourg 2017? Beware!'. I personally can't wait to see all those 'glorious brilliant' guys of PS dealing with reality...

That being said, even if I could have been very annoyed by all this PS hypocrisy all along the years, that would still be better to have them instead of Sarkozy on most realms...
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« Reply #180 on: April 22, 2012, 04:11:03 pm »



Results so far...
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #181 on: April 22, 2012, 04:13:14 pm »
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Any reason to be shocked that Marine's not carried a department yet?
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« Reply #182 on: April 22, 2012, 04:14:55 pm »

Any reason to be shocked that Marine's not carried a department yet?

Not with both 'serious' candidates over 25%, no. She might still do though, and has come very close in places.
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #183 on: April 22, 2012, 04:15:33 pm »
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Interestingly both Chirac and Hollande were from outside of Corrèze, but made their political bases there. Chirac is from Paris, Hollande from Rouen.

Ah. I remember Chirac was also Mayor of Paris for some time. I'm always amazed by how much of what would here be seen as blatant carpetbagging goes on in Europe.

Yep, he was mayor of Paris and deputy from Corrèze at the same time, as I recall.

That's legal in France? I know European countries tend to be more tolerant of carpetbagging but never thought to that level.

Yes. I'm not sure if there were some recent limitations (my memory may be fooling me).

I remember Poland until 2002 allowed one to serve as Mayor and member of Parliament simultaneously. Not necessarily from the same place (well, Hollande is at least President of Corrèze and Deputy from Corrèze). It ended when, the same year, mayors started to be elected by popular vote, instead of being chosen by city councils.

As of carpetbagging in Poland, don't let me even start Wink
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« Reply #184 on: April 22, 2012, 04:16:11 pm »
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Any reason to be shocked that Marine's not carried a department yet?

She still has a great chance at carrying Moselle.
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« Reply #185 on: April 22, 2012, 04:17:07 pm »
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Le Pen has won Gard

MLP 25.51
Sarkozy 24.86
Hollande 24.11
Melenchon 13.23
Bayrou 6.91
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« Reply #186 on: April 22, 2012, 04:17:16 pm »
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Interestingly both Chirac and Hollande were from outside of Corrèze, but made their political bases there. Chirac is from Paris, Hollande from Rouen.

Ah. I remember Chirac was also Mayor of Paris for some time. I'm always amazed by how much of what would here be seen as blatant carpetbagging goes on in Europe.

Yep, he was mayor of Paris and deputy from Corrèze at the same time, as I recall.

That's legal 'the rule' in France

I'm proud of how well Melenchon did. He started out as a gadfly, and it looks like he may do better than Jean-Marie in 2007. Impressive. I'm certain he took some votes from FN as well.

His campaign was almost universally recognized as having been great and the best one, but really the results are low. He didn't even went beyond the traditional score of the French far-left, but as I posted above, he might, or his movement, might still have a future...

What sort of place is Corrèze? It seems really rural, possibly mountainous? Is it considered part of the Massif Central?

Lived there several years while a child. It's definitely part of Massif Central yes, very green, lot of forests, middle mountains, quite rural, slightly conservative, but still rather open minded, something along the rest of Limousin, might be the most rightist département of this région.

So Hollande's from a sort of low-key rural leftist background, culturally? That sounds nice, actually. Too bad he's going to be inheriting and presiding over an absolute sh**tstorm.

lol, no, at all, it's a cute Parisian upper middle class baby. Grin
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« Reply #187 on: April 22, 2012, 04:18:40 pm »

Le Pen has won Gard

MLP 25.51
Sarkozy 24.86
Hollande 24.11
Melenchon 13.23
Bayrou 6.91

On cue, no?
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« Reply #188 on: April 22, 2012, 04:19:12 pm »
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What sort of place is Corrèze? It seems really rural, possibly mountainous? Is it considered part of the Massif Central?

Lived there several years while a child. It's definitely part of Massif Central yes, very green, lot of forests, middle mountains, quite rural, slightly conservative, but still rather open minded, something along the rest of Limousin, might be the most rightist département of this région.

So Hollande's from a sort of low-key rural leftist background, culturally? That sounds nice, actually. Too bad he's going to be inheriting and presiding over an absolute sh**tstorm.

lol, no, at all, it's a cute Parisian upper middle class baby. Grin

...Oh joy.

The sheer domination of primate cities is another thing that interests me about Europe. Paris, London, Madrid...New York has nowhere near that much influence within the United States.
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« Reply #189 on: April 22, 2012, 04:19:22 pm »
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Can we expect much difference from the revised exit polls, or are they usually close to bang on?
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« Reply #190 on: April 22, 2012, 04:21:32 pm »
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Hey Languedoc-Roussillon still at it, damn it, Aude:

F. Hollande : 30,40%
M. Le Pen : 23,22%
N. Sarkozy : 21,63%
J-L. Mélenchon : 13,15%
F. Bayrou : 6,04%
E. Joly : 2,09%
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« Reply #191 on: April 22, 2012, 04:25:26 pm »
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What sort of place is Corrèze? It seems really rural, possibly mountainous? Is it considered part of the Massif Central?

Lived there several years while a child. It's definitely part of Massif Central yes, very green, lot of forests, middle mountains, quite rural, slightly conservative, but still rather open minded, something along the rest of Limousin, might be the most rightist département of this région.

So Hollande's from a sort of low-key rural leftist background, culturally? That sounds nice, actually. Too bad he's going to be inheriting and presiding over an absolute sh**tstorm.

lol, no, at all, it's a cute Parisian upper middle class baby. Grin

...Oh joy.

The sheer domination of primate cities is another thing that interests me about Europe. Paris, London, Madrid...New York has nowhere near that much influence within the United States.

New York has that much influence within its state, doesn't it?
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« Reply #192 on: April 22, 2012, 04:26:52 pm »
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Back.

So, here we go. The first and second results were pretty promising, then came the terrible news. Don't take me wrong, I'm not scared that Hollande could lose this. Even if Sarko had pulled ahead, his chances to win were extremely tight. Now, he's basically done. We'll get rid of him and in the next 5 years we won't have too much economic, social and moral regression. This is a great victory.

But then what about the future ? Le Pen got almost 19% when most polls were giving her 15-16. She did better than her father, and this while turnout was far higher than in 2002. It will be hard to sleep at night thinking one voter of five is ready to support the far-right. I'm pretty sure to know what comes next. The UMP can't remain competitive with a FN at 20%. They have realized that trying to steal their votes by adopting their rhetoric doesn't work. The only rational choice is an electoral alliance. It won't come now, but it might well come by 2017. And then we'll get a Horrible Coalition ala Netherlands... Of course now is too soon, the FN hasn't entirely "dediabolized" itself, but it will come, sooner than you think. The Great Reactionary Alliance, made of those who screw the poor and those who make sure the poor will turn their hate on the foreigners, those who claim to defend the people and those whose policies harm 90% of the people, this alliance is almost unbeatable. France's turn will come.

But I digress. All this will only come if Hollande fails in restoring hope. If he succeeds (he can't succeed alone, he will need other european social democrats to prevail), then the disgusting reactionary machine will be stopped in time. I'll bet on his success.

Now, there's a clear goal : winning more than 55%. Getting a clear mandate is a necessity, winning is not enough. Then, the goal will be to win a solid majority in the Parliament. If all this is done, there are decent reasons to hope.
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« Reply #193 on: April 22, 2012, 04:27:21 pm »
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What sort of place is Corrèze? It seems really rural, possibly mountainous? Is it considered part of the Massif Central?

Lived there several years while a child. It's definitely part of Massif Central yes, very green, lot of forests, middle mountains, quite rural, slightly conservative, but still rather open minded, something along the rest of Limousin, might be the most rightist département of this région.

So Hollande's from a sort of low-key rural leftist background, culturally? That sounds nice, actually. Too bad he's going to be inheriting and presiding over an absolute sh**tstorm.

lol, no, at all, it's a cute Parisian upper middle class baby. Grin

...Oh joy.

The sheer domination of primate cities is another thing that interests me about Europe. Paris, London, Madrid...New York has nowhere near that much influence within the United States.

New York has that much influence within its state, doesn't it?

Good point! Perhaps it would within a hypothetical 'Northeast' country of roughly a large Western European country's population.
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« Reply #194 on: April 22, 2012, 04:28:42 pm »

The case of Paris is exceptional, I think. Even London doesn't have that degree of...
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« Reply #195 on: April 22, 2012, 04:31:11 pm »

Nord is in: Hollande 28, Poison Dwarf 25, Panzergirl 22, Fellow Traveler 12.6
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« Reply #196 on: April 22, 2012, 04:31:19 pm »
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With Le Pen doing insanely well, does that bode a shift from the usual pattern of the FN sucking at elections for the National Assembly?  With this much higher a level of support, surely it's nearing the tipping point where they'll start squeaking through even with France's electoral system.
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« Reply #197 on: April 22, 2012, 04:31:54 pm »
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The case of Paris is exceptional, I think. Even London doesn't have that degree of...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Hollande even though he represents a rural area is apparently culturally Parisian. Sarkozy is from some awful Paris suburb. Chirac was Parisian. Was Mitterrand even from anywhere in particular?
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« Reply #198 on: April 22, 2012, 04:32:36 pm »

Poison Dwarf edges out Panzergirl (and Hollande, actually) in Moselle: 26, 25, 24
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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« Reply #199 on: April 22, 2012, 04:34:15 pm »
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Are there any seats where 50% of the voters are willing to vote for FN in a two-way election?
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