CA CD Wine Country Map Quest poll

[Sbane]

A Marin and Petaluma based district taking in the Richmond area is a complete no-no. Go ahead and cross the Golden Gate but do NOT cross that bridge Torie just discovered. The differential in median income across that bridge is probably higher than the median income of America. Those two areas just don't belong. Muon's ideas wouldn't work either, judging from the map Torie made in the last post.

So the 1st, 2nd and the 4th maps would be acceptable with the others being unacceptable. The 2nd is the best of those options and what I voted for. Map 4 is actually very good except for the SF chop, but like I said is still preferable to crossing the Richmond-San Rafael bridge. I think the 1st is still more preferable to the 4th due to it not crossing over and taking in Redding and Modoc County. But they are close by and the 2nd is clearly better in my opinion.

[Sbane]

Ca-5 does not take in Richmond or Marin County nor Petaluma. Santa Rosa isn't really that wealthy (nor is it working class of course). That being said I don't like that much. I prefer the 2nd map with Richmond and the rest of working class COCO county with Vallejo and Fairfield. Also Marin County gets put with Santa Rosa which works fine. Redding with the coast doesn't work as well, admittedly, but that county isn't actually that attached to the valley. If you go up there, you will see that most of the county, including Redding and a few areas to the south are not that agricultural. I don't really have a huge problem with putting it in the wilderness district, though it's not ideal. Better than putting Marin County with Richmond. Just because Tupac was from Marin county doesn't give it street cred!

[Sbane]

Yeah, the commission map is all over the place. Still, I don't know if they did anything as bad as putting Richmond with Marin County. I mean, Marin County has a median income approaching 100k and Richmond is right around 50k. And it's not as if Marin county is only 20 or 30,000 people or something, and the same with Richmond and surroundings.

[Sbane]

Yeah, the commission map is all over the place. Still, I don't know if they did anything as bad as putting Richmond with Marin County. I mean, Marin County has a median income approaching 100k and Richmond is right around 50k. And it's not as if Marin county is only 20 or 30,000 people or something, and the same with Richmond and surroundings.

Yes, yes, but it mitigates the CA-03 chop in CCC. It is all a balancing test, which is why I wanted input. Once I get the dpmapper map done, the new poll will have nine maps in it.

Right, but what I'm saying is that CA-3 chopping into CCC makes infinitely more sense than a district from Marin County chopping into CCC. It is a balancing test, and the 2nd map is the right mix. It's not perfect obviously, no map is going to be, but it's the best of the lot. Maybe I'm missing it, but does crossing the Richmond-San Rafael bridge lead to one less chop than CA-3 chopping CCC?

[Sbane]

Here you go. CA-05 gets uncomfortably close to Fairfield, but not there, so not bad - at all. The alternative which would push CA-05 away from Fairfield would be for CA-02 to take Siskiyou County, and the cost of CA-02 crossing I-5 causes that pawn move to be too expensive. '

Looks good.  I like keeping CA-03 farther away from SF and the CA-05 wraparound of the north bay is a nice way to do it.  I understand sbane's concern about Richmond but it at least gets paired with Vallejo here.  Yes, other than being on the same body of water, it's an odd fit with Marin but these things inevitably happen; nobody complains about Daly City and East Palo Alto being matched with Atherton and Menlo Park. 

Well, I think the difference here is that you are crossing a bridge to pick up Richmond. Though keeping it with Vallejo makes it slightly better I suppose. East Palo Alto is only 10-20k people and Daly City and EPA are right adjacent to the areas its put with. It's unwise to cross bridges from the peninsula or Marin County to the East Bay. That geographical barrier creates a different community of interest on the two sides of the bay. And this is not something obscure but would be something that would be acknowledged by the majority of Bay Area residents.

[Sbane]

Here's my offering for wine country showing how it fits into the northern half of the state. All CDs are within 100 of the ideal population. All counties with enough population have a district entirely within, and Sacto and Alameda have two CDs entirely within. No county has part of more than two CDs not counting those entirely within. County splits are organized to split off only a small part where possible leaving most of the county intact. For example these are the populations of the fragments split:

Butte: 7.8K
Colusa: 0.6K
Napa: 3.3K
Placer: 0.5K
Sonoma: 2.0K

I followed the basic format as you and tried to see if you could avoid crossing over into CCC from Marin. I kept the chop in Colusa and SF as you have. Then the SF-Marin district takes in as much of Sonoma County as needed. Only the cities of Sonoma, Windsor and the northern rural areas are excluded. Those areas get put in a district that takes in Mendocino, Lake, Napa, Colusa, Yolo and about 50,000 from Solano. I just avoided splitting Vacaville and basically Vacaville, Fairfield, Benicia and Vallejo get put in a district that goes down to Richmond and takes in some areas in inland CCC like Martinez and Pleasant Hill. I could have extended it towards Pittsburg but that's just nitpicking. What is important is that there is no need to draw a district from Marin into these working class areas. Too bad I didn't save it before it crashed.

[Sbane]

Here you go. CA-05 gets uncomfortably close to Fairfield, but not there, so not bad - at all. The alternative which would push CA-05 away from Fairfield would be for CA-02 to take Siskiyou County, and the cost of CA-02 crossing I-5 causes that pawn move to be too expensive. '

Looks good.  I like keeping CA-03 farther away from SF and the CA-05 wraparound of the north bay is a nice way to do it.  I understand sbane's concern about Richmond but it at least gets paired with Vallejo here.  Yes, other than being on the same body of water, it's an odd fit with Marin but these things inevitably happen; nobody complains about Daly City and East Palo Alto being matched with Atherton and Menlo Park. 

Well, I think the difference here is that you are crossing a bridge to pick up Richmond. Though keeping it with Vallejo makes it slightly better I suppose. East Palo Alto is only 10-20k people and Daly City and EPA are right adjacent to the areas its put with. It's unwise to cross bridges from the peninsula or Marin County to the East Bay. That geographical barrier creates a different community of interest on the two sides of the bay. And this is not something obscure but would be something that would be acknowledged by the majority of Bay Area residents.

In this map there's no need to rely on the bridge.  That's partly why I suggested it (that, and adding Vallejo to Richmond).  Yes, the east and west halves of the district are very distinct parts of the Bay Area.  But that fact by itself shouldn't entitle the Bay Area to another district just so that they can be split up.  Better they get kept together rather than drawing places like Yolo County in with Richmond, for instance. 

But here you have Santa Rosa, Fairfield and Vacaville being put in non-Bay Area districts. Napa arguably is a part of the Bay Area as well. And it's not as if Yolo fits in well with any other part of the state. West Sacramento should be in a Sacramento district, Davis has no obvious place to go and Woodland should go with the central valley. In the map I like, only the rural areas in Yolo, containing maybe 30k people get put in a Bay Area district, as well as Davis which is fine since it has nowhere better to go.

[Sbane]

And for you uber class warriors, you know the "slums" need to go somewhere. Since Oakland has its own CD, Richmond needs to be appended to middle class areas, or tied to more rural Solano. The SF metro area is rather light on slums - it is just too expensive.

Oh, sure. We can't really put Richmond with another 500-600k who are of the same class background if we take Oakland out of the equation. Putting it with Vallejo, and the more middle class (but certainly not upper class like Marin) in between those two cities is a no-brainer. Then you need to figure out where to get the 300k odd extra people. If the choice is between Marin, and Fairfield/Vacaville, that is again a no-brainer. The commission went with a third option, Napa and Santa Rosa. That isn't idea but it's not Marin County. Santa Rosa only has a median income of 50k. I was actually surprised it was that low. And as for Fairfield and Vacaville, Fairfield is at 60k and Vacaville is maybe 70-80k. Middle class surely, but certainly no Marin County.

[Sbane]

That map's not bad if you just follow my fix to put CCC in the 3rd and most of the rest of Central Valley in the 3rd with the 5th picking up as much of Sonoma County as needed to get up to full population. That also basically resolves the issue dpmapper has of areas around the Bay Area being diluted by Bay Area votes.

[Sbane]

That map's not bad if you just follow my fix to put CCC in the 3rd and most of the rest of Central Valley in the 3rd with the 5th picking up as much of Sonoma County as needed to get up to full population. That also basically resolves the issue dpmapper has of areas around the Bay Area being diluted by Bay Area votes.

That was my original map more or less, sbane. It causes CA-02 to suck up Shasta County. CA-02 crossing I-5 is a negative, and it gives CA-02 a non compact and wandering look to boot.  I-5 is a good connector highway to join together a lightly populated CD zone. So that is the cost for giving the class warfare theme a high priority. Is it worth it to you? 

By the way, not all of what CA-05 takes in CCC is that down market. It takes in a lot more than just Richmond, and I think Pinole is quite middle class. Perhaps only about half of the population in CA-05 in CCC is really sub-middle class. That is because it takes in more of CCC than my original map, because I kicked out CA-09 from CCC. Do you agree? I ask because that area is in your former neck of the woods.

Yeah, not all of that area is working class of course. But it doesn't really have any place with a median income above 80k, which is just above the median income of the Bay Area. And it really goes well with Fairfield and Vacaville in any case (or Concord, Pleasant Hill and Martinez within CCC). It just makes so much more sense than jumping the bay and putting it with upper class Marin which might care more about trees, global warming and buying fair trade whole foods for their vegan diet than "kitchen table" issues.

[Sbane]

That map's not bad if you just follow my fix to put CCC in the 3rd and most of the rest of Central Valley in the 3rd with the 5th picking up as much of Sonoma County as needed to get up to full population. That also basically resolves the issue dpmapper has of areas around the Bay Area being diluted by Bay Area votes.

That was my original map more or less, sbane. It causes CA-02 to suck up Shasta County. CA-02 crossing I-5 is a negative, and it gives CA-02 a non compact and wandering look to boot.  I-5 is a good connector highway to join together a lightly populated CD zone. So that is the cost for giving the class warfare theme a high priority. Is it worth it to you? 

By the way, not all of what CA-05 takes in CCC is that down market. It takes in a lot more than just Richmond, and I think Pinole is quite middle class. Perhaps only about half of the population in CA-05 in CCC is really sub-middle class. That is because it takes in more of CCC than my original map, because I kicked out CA-09 from CCC. Do you agree? I ask because that area is in your former neck of the woods.

Yeah, not all of that area is working class of course. But it doesn't really have any place with a median income above 80k, which is just above the median income of the Bay Area. And it really goes well with Fairfield and Vacaville in any case (or Concord, Pleasant Hill and Martinez within CCC). It just makes so much more sense than jumping the bay and putting it with upper class Marin which might care more about trees, global warming and buying fair trade whole foods for their vegan diet than "kitchen table" issues.

And all of that is worth appending Shasta to CA-02 I take it?  Mittens by the way gave a kick ass speech tonight. If you listen to it, some of it will sound like some of my posts.

Well, like I said most of Shasta County has a mountain feel to it, yes including Redding. Most of the agricultural areas start from Tehama County. It's not ideal but it will have to do in my mind. Maybe some ranchers from that area will be pissed off and want to shoot me in the face. I dunno.

A good Mitt speech, eh? So he went beyond saying he believes in America and that it is the greatest nation created since the big bang? Not saying that it isn't a bold statement, but did he go into more specifics than pointing out Obama might have once worked as a community organizer? I will check it out. Maybe not soon as I am studying for finals, and to procrastinate, redistricting. I'm still pissed at him (and Santorum I guess) for denying me the chance to analyze meaningful California results.

[Sbane]

Romney is lucky Obama is hated in "real" America, or else he would lose. He might pull this out but it will be hard for him to get anything done. Same with Obama too though.

[Sbane]

Meh, Torie's map in his sig (and iirc I had a similar map) is much preferable to that. And between the two options you posted, I would say they are equally flawed (or good).

[Sbane]

That map is clearly an abomination, but I'm sure you knew that.

Indeed. I like Torie's version of SoCal (probably because he is familiar with it but is screwing it up now) but the NorCal map is a mess. Richmond with Marin and Eureka with an inland district. Tsk tsk. Also the northern central valley is split in two when there could be one rural district.

[Sbane]

Granted, I haven't really been following this thread all too closely, but after seeing Torie's sig, I have to ask: What did the poor people of Eureka do to get screwed over like that?

Not make the same quality wine as Napa, Sonoma, and Mendocino.

But they grow better weed.

[Sbane]

Well, it looks like I can't convince you not to cross into CCC from Marin, but other than that good map. The Marin situation can be easily fixed of course, but would need a chop of Solano.